Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • WeAreNDHockey
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by burd View Post
    Training will not cure racism, that's for sure, but it can help avoid some of these unnecessary killings.

    I'm guessing that tighter prehire screening is not a very effective solution, since candidates will just hide their prejudices and departments probably have a hard time finding minimally qualified candidates as it is.
    This is not true. Better hiring practices, perhaps realizing that the military is not the only fertile ground to find cops, can go a long way. Psychological screening can still successfully weed out those most likely to let prejudices severely cloud their actions if it is done rigidly.

    Leave a comment:


  • WeAreNDHockey
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    It's three-fold. Training matters, of course, but more important are hiring the right people to begin with, and holding those who screw up accountable. Neither of those are being done with much success right now.

    The office in Cleveland who was recently fired in the Tamir Rice shooting was hired by the CPD even though his superiors in Independence (a southern suburb of Cleveland) thought he was unable to perform his duties. How the hell did he then get hired by a bigger department in a city with much more crime and related difficulties? His supervisors said his performance in handling firearms was "dismal" and his deputy chief noted he did not believe "time nor training will be able to change or correct the deficiencies." He was allowed to resign from the Independence PD in lieu of termination over his shortcomings. Does anyone believe these kinds of hiring deficiencies are limited to this one officer in this one police department? Well, maybe those who believe trump could learn how to be president in the 2 1/2 months between his election and his inauguration. That only talks too about hiring people with proven tactical deficiencies. Psychologically is another area. I believe we are often hiring the wrong people to be police officers. Cops nowadays have an occupation mentality. Maybe the infatuation with hiring ex-military has come back to roost, another aspect I believe is the cause of a lot of this. Just because soldiers and Marines carry weapons and so do cops, the jobs are radically different in most ways. Just like just because cops and firefighters respond to 911 calls in vehicles with lights and sirens and often end up on the same scene, the jobs are hardly similar.

    Then begin to hold a few accountable. If the Tamir Rice shooting or the Castille shooting or any of a number of other ones ended in manslaughter convictions and a decade in prison for the worst cops among us, would that lead to police using deadly force only when they truly had no other choice? Well we put our other criminals in prison allegedly to serve as a deterrent to the rest of us committing similar crimes. Fellow law enforcement officers need to get on board with this. They need to drum the bad ones out. Yet that is the last thing that happens. Police unions, police brass, prosecutors, they are all the last ones who will ever say the cops are wrong. When a cop is wrong, they should be the first ones to say so. And no, not every fatal encounter that should have gone a different way is criminal. But how many of the 1000 or more fatal shootings even lead to an officer being removed from the force, let alone criminally charged?

    Leave a comment:


  • burd
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Zero. And training has nothing to do with it.
    Training will not cure racism, that's for sure, but it can help avoid some of these unnecessary killings.

    I'm guessing that tighter prehire screening is not a very effective solution, since candidates will just hide their prejudices and departments probably have a hard time finding minimally qualified candidates as it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScoobyDoo
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    There is a video circulating on Facebook of a white dude attacking, fighting, and reaching for the gun of two officers. They try and restrain him, they fight back they dont beat him senseless and they sure as hell dont shoot/kill him. They would be completely justified in fearing for their lives but they dont take the next step of ending the life of a citizen.

    That is the difference between White America and Black America. What are the chances a Black Man survives that encounter...or isnt put in the hospital?
    Zero. And training has nothing to do with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Yeah but this is a police thread.

    And you can beat the drum about "training" all you want to...it is more than training. The chances that the only the badly trained cops are the ones who are involved in killing Black People is infinitesimal. That is just an excuse and ignores the many other factors involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by burd View Post
    Training is huge and will help, but racism in this country is deeply entrenched, and it takes more than police training to change a culture.
    I will not argue the racism bit, I agree that it is entrenched. It's just not a police thing. It's more widespread than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • burd
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Training. And I know where you're going with this.

    It's all in the training.
    Training is huge and will help, but racism in this country is deeply entrenched, and it takes more than police training to change a culture.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    There is a video circulating on Facebook of a white dude attacking, fighting, and reaching for the gun of two officers. They try and restrain him, they fight back they dont beat him senseless and they sure as hell dont shoot/kill him. They would be completely justified in fearing for their lives but they dont take the next step of ending the life of a citizen.

    That is the difference between White America and Black America. What are the chances a Black Man survives that encounter...or isnt put in the hospital?
    Training. And I know where you're going with this.

    It's all in the training.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    There is a video circulating on Facebook of a white dude attacking, fighting, and reaching for the gun of two officers. They try and restrain him, they fight back they dont beat him senseless and they sure as hell dont shoot/kill him. They would be completely justified in fearing for their lives but they dont take the next step of ending the life of a citizen.

    That is the difference between White America and Black America. What are the chances a Black Man survives that encounter...or isnt put in the hospital?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Sadly, the stereotype is that ex-mil are gung-ho. I ran into one of them. Buddy's wife was .08, the week the new MN law passed, making .08 the new limit. He was all in our faces. He came to me, and "asked" (actually kinda demanded) "She said you're the most sober, wanna blow into this?" I initially said no, I'm not driving anywhere. He insisted. Fine, arsehat. Blew. He said, "Yeah, you're not going anywhere." Um, I JUST TOLD YOU THAT.
    The ex-mils I have had experience with are just the opposite. It's the wanna bes who are trying to prove something. The actual soldiers have had a belly full of carnage and would just assume never discharge their weapon again if they can avoid it.

    I've been really impressed by the training and the attitude of ex-mils and their immediate families. As a general observation they seem to be serious and thoughtful in how they observe firearms safety and how they try to de-escalate conflict. Again, it's the 4-Fs who are gung ho.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    At about the same time, another officer who had just arrived on the scene saw what was happening and "fearing for his safety and apparently not recognizing the off-duty officer, discharged a shot, striking the off-duty officer in the arm."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3RJUMm-hd0

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by state of hockey View Post
    I have a few friends that were in multiple tours in Afghanistan. They buck that stereotype. They hide in the weeds, so to speak. Avoid being the center of attention. One of them before going overseas was very alpha. Dominating, in your face presence, but in a good way. Not afterwards. I asked him why, he simply said "I found out pretty quick what happens when you behave that way in those situations."

    That friend eventually sought out help. No meds, just talking to a trained professional. Made a big difference. Even though he retired 6 years ago, people say he's just now coming back.
    That's good on him. There are a few who love the authority. And that part sucks.

    Leave a comment:


  • state of hockey
    replied
    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Sadly, the stereotype is that ex-mil are gung-ho. I ran into one of them. Buddy's wife was .08, the week the new MN law passed, making .08 the new limit. He was all in our faces. He came to me, and "asked" (actually kinda demanded) "She said you're the most sober, wanna blow into this?" I initially said no, I'm not driving anywhere. He insisted. Fine, arsehat. Blew. He said, "Yeah, you're not going anywhere." Um, I JUST TOLD YOU THAT.
    I have a few friends that were in multiple tours in Afghanistan. They buck that stereotype. They hide in the weeds, so to speak. Avoid being the center of attention. One of them before going overseas was very alpha. Dominating, in your face presence, but in a good way. Not afterwards. I asked him why, he simply said "I found out pretty quick what happens when you behave that way in those situations."

    That friend eventually sought out help. No meds, just talking to a trained professional. Made a big difference. Even though he retired 6 years ago, people say he's just now coming back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    So now an officer who just arrived on the scene and fears for his safety even though 2 other cops are there? He just shoots and doesnt care? What the hell is wrong with these cops...tone down the testosterone and take a flipping breathe Rambo.

    Leave a comment:


  • jerphisch
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    It's so hard to tell if the black guy is your co-worker...might as well shoot him.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X