Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

It's appalling that this isn't illegal

[SonofSouthie]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

It's appalling that this isn't illegal

Kirsten Hunter said her 3-year-old son, Aksel, was forcefully catheterized at the Avera hospital in Pierre in late February after her boyfriend failed a urine analysis. Authorities wanted to have her and her two children tested to see if they also had drugs in their system.

“I didn’t actually think they were going to go through with it. Even when we went to the hospital, I thought it was a threat.”
Dirk Sparks
Pierre police officers and a Department of Social Services employee showed up at her home and said if her kids couldn't produce urine, they would be taken from her. Hunter said her son isn’t potty-trained. So while she and her 5-year-old daughter were able to provide a urine sample, her young son couldn't.

He was held down and forcibly catheterized by nurses.

“They just shoved it right up there, and he screamed so bad,” Hunter said. “He’s still dealing with a staph infection, and we are still giving him medication.”

I'm at a total loss for words.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I'm at a total loss for words.

I put a lot of blame on the healthcare professionals. If someone asked me to do that, I would kindly tell them to **** off. It is entirely unethical. As a physician, my duty is to the patient first, not to the criminal justice system.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.

[Handyman]

For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.

I don't care what the case is that is too far. I don't care if blood can't help forced catherization is ridiculous. Criminals have rights too.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I don't care what the case is that is too far. I don't care if blood can't help forced catherization is ridiculous. Criminals have rights too.

I agree they have rights. I would like to find out more info about this type of info-collecting. If a blood test (which can be a forced procedure to my understanding) can provide the same info as a forced urine test, then my opinion most definitely changes. Make no mistake, I want to know everything I can before I form an opinion on this. IF I had to say anything right now, I would ssy no to the forced urine test.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

If done without consent and/or medical necessity, I would not hesitate to call it cruel and unusual punishment. You feel every inch of that needle, and heaven help you if they have trouble getting it past your prostate.

They should at least be given the choice to pee in a cup when faced with the warrant. Like the guy who said he would, but was told "too late". That's complete BS.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.

Even with a warrant, a cath is an unnecessary medical procedure and medical professionals at a hospital should not participate with it. Our hospital's legal team would have our back (because it has come up) if the local police were to suggest doing it. It is not our role or job to collect evidence.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Even with a warrant, a cath is an unnecessary medical procedure and medical professionals at a hospital should not participate with it. Our hospital's legal team would have our back (because it has come up) if the local police were to suggest doing it. It is not our role or job to collect evidence.

There are where my questions come from.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

There are where my questions come from.

A cath would be necessary if there was evidence of retaining urine (and unable to void) or we were trying to diagnose a urinary tract infection. Beyond that, there is not much in the emergency room that would require it. If we were to obtain a urine sample through those means for those reasons, we still would not submit it to the police so they could test it for drugs. We are not there to collect evidence.

If medically it is important to know if the patient was taking something we can run a urine drug screen. However, (at least where I practice), the police do not have access to that (at least right away) and have to go through the courts to get access to the patient's confidential health records.

It is a little difference with prisoners but the thing I always remember is I cannot tell them when they might leave. Beyond that (and having two armed guards in the room) there is not much different from a "normal" patient.

Edit:
As for a blood test, we at the hospital are not the ones obtaining it for the police (nor should we).

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

A cath would be necessary if there was evidence of retaining urine (and unable to void) or we were trying to diagnose a urinary tract infection. Beyond that, there is not much in the emergency room that would require it. If we were to obtain a urine sample through those means for those reasons, we still would not submit it to the police so they could test it for drugs. We are not there to collect evidence.

If medically it is important to know if the patient was taking something we can run a urine drug screen. However, (at least where I practice), the police do not have access to that (at least right away) and have to go through the courts to get access to the patient's confidential health records.

It is a little difference with prisoners but the thing I always remember is I cannot tell them when they might leave. Beyond that (and having two armed guards in the room) there is not much different from a "normal" patient.

Edit:
As for a blood test, we at the hospital are not the ones obtaining it for the police (nor should we).

Thank you for the information. I will take you at your word that what you say is true, and if that's the case, then this is way over the line.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Thank you for the information. I will take you at your word that what you say is true, and if that's the case, then this is way over the line.

Of course

It may be different at different institutions/states. I personally would never work for a place that would not have my back, legally, in those situations. It is crucial to maintain the doctor-patient relationship and trust. If a patient (or suspect) feels that I do not have their best interests first and foremost, it will hurt their care.

I have plenty of stroke patients who test positive for cocaine (much less than directly admit to it). I know it is not the same scenario as the above but I think it has importance to the underlying principle. It is much easier for me to provide better care, prevent the next stroke, get them the resources they need if they trust me and do not have to worry about the criminal justice system finding out they used an illegal substance.

I have also learned to test everyone, trust no one (100% that is). If those test results were easily obtained by police I would be much more hesitant to test them, or I would talk to the patient and get consent before running certain tests.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Of course

It may be different at different institutions/states. I personally would never work for a place that would not have my back, legally, in those situations. It is crucial to maintain the doctor-patient relationship and trust. If a patient (or suspect) feels that I do not have their best interests first and foremost, it will hurt their care.

I have plenty of stroke patients who test positive for cocaine (much less than directly admit to it). I know it is not the same scenario as the above but I think it has importance to the underlying principle. It is much easier for me to provide better care, prevent the next stroke, get them the resources they need if they trust me and do not have to worry about the criminal justice system finding out they used an illegal substance.

I have also learned to test everyone, trust no one (100% that is). If those test results were easily obtained by police I would be much more hesitant to test them, or I would talk to the patient and get consent before running certain tests.

I am obviously known as a cop-lover around these parts, in general, but I do try to get all info before I make a statement. In this case, there are (or could be) a LOT of gray areas, so I was hesitant to say how I felt one way or the other. Your input is appreciated.

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Just a Few More Bad Apples

The victim is no innocent...but he didnt deserve to be assaulted. I am sure we will hear otherwise though...

I especially enjoy when the hero cop runs up towards the end as the victim is on the ground cuffed and curbstomps him. I bet that true American Hero feared for his life as he ran his worthless POS *** to help. What a piece of dripslime.

edit: Link from the article to This Incident

Another true American Hero assaulting a black man for friggin Jaywalking.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

With all the cameras these days I can't believe there are still so many idiots out there. I've watched Live PD a few times (it got boring after 2-3 episodes) but the cops they followed never once got out of line even in situations where I might not have blamed them.