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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by WisconsinWildcard View Post
    A cath would be necessary if there was evidence of retaining urine (and unable to void) or we were trying to diagnose a urinary tract infection. Beyond that, there is not much in the emergency room that would require it. If we were to obtain a urine sample through those means for those reasons, we still would not submit it to the police so they could test it for drugs. We are not there to collect evidence.

    If medically it is important to know if the patient was taking something we can run a urine drug screen. However, (at least where I practice), the police do not have access to that (at least right away) and have to go through the courts to get access to the patient's confidential health records.

    It is a little difference with prisoners but the thing I always remember is I cannot tell them when they might leave. Beyond that (and having two armed guards in the room) there is not much different from a "normal" patient.

    Edit:
    As for a blood test, we at the hospital are not the ones obtaining it for the police (nor should we).
    Thank you for the information. I will take you at your word that what you say is true, and if that's the case, then this is way over the line.

    Leave a comment:


  • WisconsinWildcard
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
    There are where my questions come from.
    A cath would be necessary if there was evidence of retaining urine (and unable to void) or we were trying to diagnose a urinary tract infection. Beyond that, there is not much in the emergency room that would require it. If we were to obtain a urine sample through those means for those reasons, we still would not submit it to the police so they could test it for drugs. We are not there to collect evidence.

    If medically it is important to know if the patient was taking something we can run a urine drug screen. However, (at least where I practice), the police do not have access to that (at least right away) and have to go through the courts to get access to the patient's confidential health records.

    It is a little difference with prisoners but the thing I always remember is I cannot tell them when they might leave. Beyond that (and having two armed guards in the room) there is not much different from a "normal" patient.

    Edit:
    As for a blood test, we at the hospital are not the ones obtaining it for the police (nor should we).

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by WisconsinWildcard View Post
    Even with a warrant, a cath is an unnecessary medical procedure and medical professionals at a hospital should not participate with it. Our hospital's legal team would have our back (because it has come up) if the local police were to suggest doing it. It is not our role or job to collect evidence.
    There are where my questions come from.

    Leave a comment:


  • WisconsinWildcard
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
    For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

    I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.
    Even with a warrant, a cath is an unnecessary medical procedure and medical professionals at a hospital should not participate with it. Our hospital's legal team would have our back (because it has come up) if the local police were to suggest doing it. It is not our role or job to collect evidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    If done without consent and/or medical necessity, I would not hesitate to call it cruel and unusual punishment. You feel every inch of that needle, and heaven help you if they have trouble getting it past your prostate.

    They should at least be given the choice to pee in a cup when faced with the warrant. Like the guy who said he would, but was told "too late". That's complete BS.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    I don't care what the case is that is too far. I don't care if blood can't help forced catherization is ridiculous. Criminals have rights too.
    I agree they have rights. I would like to find out more info about this type of info-collecting. If a blood test (which can be a forced procedure to my understanding) can provide the same info as a forced urine test, then my opinion most definitely changes. Make no mistake, I want to know everything I can before I form an opinion on this. IF I had to say anything right now, I would ssy no to the forced urine test.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
    For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

    I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.
    I don't care what the case is that is too far. I don't care if blood can't help forced catherization is ridiculous. Criminals have rights too.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rube
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

    I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.

    Leave a comment:


  • WisconsinWildcard
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by SonofSouthie View Post
    I'm at a total loss for words.
    I put a lot of blame on the healthcare professionals. If someone asked me to do that, I would kindly tell them to **** off. It is entirely unethical. As a physician, my duty is to the patient first, not to the criminal justice system.

    Leave a comment:


  • SonofSouthie
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Kirsten Hunter said her 3-year-old son, Aksel, was forcefully catheterized at the Avera hospital in Pierre in late February after her boyfriend failed a urine analysis. Authorities wanted to have her and her two children tested to see if they also had drugs in their system.

    “I didn’t actually think they were going to go through with it. Even when we went to the hospital, I thought it was a threat.”
    Dirk Sparks
    Pierre police officers and a Department of Social Services employee showed up at her home and said if her kids couldn't produce urine, they would be taken from her. Hunter said her son isn’t potty-trained. So while she and her 5-year-old daughter were able to provide a urine sample, her young son couldn't.

    He was held down and forcibly catheterized by nurses.

    “They just shoved it right up there, and he screamed so bad,” Hunter said. “He’s still dealing with a staph infection, and we are still giving him medication.”
    I'm at a total loss for words.

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    It's appalling that this isn't illegal

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Police Departments with bad records and systemic racism need no longer worry.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/u...smtyp=cur&_r=0

    Thank you, Jeff.
    Elections have consequences. And one consequence of this election is police can murder black people with impunity again. Guess that's what MAGA meant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    So if I am reading that right...the Justice Department, a GOP lead FEDERAL department is going to tell cities and states how the cops and the communities will act? They will force them to withdraw the decrees that were put in place to help the communities and police better communicate and deal with each other?

    Party of smaller government indeed. All small c conservatives that vote GOP are suckers.
    States Rights!

    Leave a comment:


  • ScoobyDoo
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    So if I am reading that right...the Justice Department, a GOP lead FEDERAL department is going to tell cities and states how the cops and the communities will act? They will force them to withdraw the decrees that were put in place to help the communities and police better communicate and deal with each other?

    Party of smaller government indeed. All small c conservatives that vote GOP are suckers.
    And they're not going to be bothered about a few bad apples.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handyman
    replied
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    So if I am reading that right...the Justice Department, a GOP lead FEDERAL department is going to tell cities and states how the cops and the communities will act? They will force them to withdraw the decrees that were put in place to help the communities and police better communicate and deal with each other?

    Party of smaller government indeed. All small c conservatives that vote GOP are suckers.

    Leave a comment:

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