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  • #136
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by giwan View Post
    I get it but if no school accepts him then you have to admit what he did was wrong in todays climate. Emoji or not, if Public Safety sees that comment I think anyone would pick him up. Its some of the after things that may be questionable.
    Public safety saw the comment and didnt pick him up. They didnt care until it was doctored. Then after it was investigated the authorities found nothing to charge him with. The school then suspended him (despite dismissing the more serious charges) and when he appealed they expelled him on charges they themselves had already dropped. They screwed the kid over because they made him their poster boy for bad thoughts ad scapegoated for the actions of others on the campus even though he did nothing wrong. They are going to pay dearly for it too.

    I dont know how you can possibly defend their actions...even if you read it like Brent did expelling him is beyond Draconian. College campuses used to be havens of free speech and an open market of ideas. Now they are just whiny White Bourgeois Liberals looking for a cause so they can get uppity. Much like the internet they just want to shout down dissent and internet shame/lynch anyone who dares say anything that just might be controversial. George Carlin warned of this and criticized what liberals on campus were becoming in the years before he died. it is only getting worse....
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

    Comment

    • #137
      Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

      Honestly, as observed in this thread alone, I think there's the potential for a fair amount of bias, and his only hope of a completely neutral trial is outside of the UP. Even though this got filed in Marquette, what is the chance this gets tried in the Wisconsin Eastern District, Green Bay or Milwaukee Division? This has been a fairly big story in the UP since last November, and it has also been picked up by all of the major news outlets in lower MI at this point, all the way down to Detroit.

      Comment

      • #138
        Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        Public safety saw the comment and didnt pick him up. They didnt care until it was doctored. Then after it was investigated the authorities found nothing to charge him with. The school then suspended him (despite dismissing the more serious charges) and when he appealed they expelled him on charges they themselves had already dropped. They screwed the kid over because they made him their poster boy for bad thoughts ad scapegoated for the actions of others on the campus even though he did nothing wrong. They are going to pay dearly for it too.

        I dont know how you can possibly defend their actions...even if you read it like Brent did expelling him is beyond Draconian. College campuses used to be havens of free speech and an open market of ideas. Now they are just whiny White Bourgeois Liberals looking for a cause so they can get uppity. Much like the internet they just want to shout down dissent and internet shame/lynch anyone who dares say anything that just might be controversial. George Carlin warned of this and criticized what liberals on campus were becoming in the years before he died. it is only getting worse....
        Oh, you can say whatever you want, as long as it's what whatever authority you are under agrees with you.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

        Comment

        • #139
          Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

          I think the probation they originally assigned to him (the counseling, impact panel, etc.) was a very fair punishment for what he did. Even if it was a joke, it was in bad taste and did have a huge impact on the university and its environment. The five-oh gave him the scare of his life. Now make this a learning experience for him, make sure he learns Why You Don't Say Those Things, and let him come out of this for the better and get on with his education. Isn't college supposed to be an environment of, you know, learning?

          Unfortunately, that got shot to hell when the Dean got a hold of his appeal. All she had to do was uphold the punishment and write a Dale Carnegie letter explaining why this is for his own good. If he goes to court then, Tech can at least point to the disturbance he caused and have a defensible case. Instead she went Class 3 Ice Queen on him.

          My at-fault breakdown:

          25% Matthew (yeah, you can't say those things where people will hear them even if it is a joke.)
          30% VP of Student Affairs (knew he had bogus evidence, continued firing up the witch hunt as if it was correct...kept the snowball rolling.)
          0% Public Safety (you see that come across Twitter, bogus or not you gotta go to DEFCON 1...can't fault them here.)
          0% Houghton police (investigated, realized they had a steaming pile of Bull Sheet on their hands, dropped charges and handed it back to Tech. Most you could ask for.)
          45% Dean (overstepped her powers in reinstating previously dismissed charges. She was the last line of defense to create an amenable solution to this headache, and she chose the option that walked Tech directly into a legal crossfire.)
          Michigan Tech Huskies Pep Band: There's No Use Trying To Talk. No Human Sound Can Stand Up To This. Loud Enough To Knock You Down.

          Comment

          • #140
            Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

            Originally posted by Twitch Boy View Post
            I think the probation they originally assigned to him (the counseling, impact panel, etc.) was a very fair punishment for what he did. Even if it was a joke, it was in bad taste and did have a huge impact on the university and its environment. The five-oh gave him the scare of his life. Now make this a learning experience for him, make sure he learns Why You Don't Say Those Things, and let him come out of this for the better and get on with his education. Isn't college supposed to be an environment of, you know, learning?

            Unfortunately, that got shot to hell when the Dean got a hold of his appeal. All she had to do was uphold the punishment and write a Dale Carnegie letter explaining why this is for his own good. If he goes to court then, Tech can at least point to the disturbance he caused and have a defensible case. Instead she went Class 3 Ice Queen on him.

            My at-fault breakdown:

            25% Matthew (yeah, you can't say those things where people will hear them even if it is a joke.)
            30% VP of Student Affairs (knew he had bogus evidence, continued firing up the witch hunt as if it was correct...kept the snowball rolling.)
            0% Public Safety (you see that come across Twitter, bogus or not you gotta go to DEFCON 1...can't fault them here.)
            0% Houghton police (investigated, realized they had a steaming pile of Bull Sheet on their hands, dropped charges and handed it back to Tech. Most you could ask for.)
            45% Dean (overstepped her powers in reinstating previously dismissed charges. She was the last line of defense to create an amenable solution to this headache, and she chose the option that walked Tech directly into a legal crossfire.)
            I think you're understating Public "Safety"'s culpability, and I'd be curious as to how 18 months of probation is fair from your point of view, but time will tell.

            Comment

            • #141
              Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

              Unless I'm mistaken, probation is basically a warning saying "don't do something like this again," but carries no real weight. I'd be reluctantly agreeable to this.
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

              Comment

              • #142
                Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                Unless I'm mistaken, probation is basically a warning saying "don't do something like this again," but carries no real weight. I'd be reluctantly agreeable to this.
                I meant suspension, which I believe is what he got, according to the allegation and the records. He couldn't be on campus, or enroll for classes for 3 semesters. It doesn't change my opinion that it was overkill.

                You are correct though. Mea culpa.

                Comment

                • #143
                  Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                  Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                  I meant suspension, which I believe is what he got, according to the allegation and the records. He couldn't be on campus, or enroll for classes for 3 semesters. It doesn't change my opinion that it was overkill.

                  You are correct though. Mea culpa.
                  And my bad for not realizing the mistake. Yes, a suspension is way too much. Probation (at worst) is appropriate. IF all the people in power had sat him down and communicated, and worked out the misunderstanding, a written notice of some kind just to have on record would have sufficed for my tastes. At best, no notice of any kind, just a verbal "don't do that again." At worst, some sort of probation.
                  Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                  Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                  Comment

                  • #144
                    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                    I think you're understating Public "Safety"'s culpability, and I'd be curious as to how 18 months of probation is fair from your point of view, but time will tell.
                    Conduct probation itself doesn't really mean anything aside from "if you fark up again during this period we fry your ***" (though it can prevent you from enrolling in some student orgs or running for officer positions.) I got 6 months for coming back to the dorms tipsy once and getting caught by a ballbuster RA. I did really like the focus on reflection/counseling during the probation, though. Fine, 12 months.

                    If he does it again, drop the banhammer, absolutely.

                    ETA: It was a full suspension with campus ban, but was dropped to probation and the ban lifted after the Student Affairs board met.
                    Michigan Tech Huskies Pep Band: There's No Use Trying To Talk. No Human Sound Can Stand Up To This. Loud Enough To Knock You Down.

                    Comment

                    • #145
                      Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                      Originally posted by Twitch Boy View Post
                      Conduct probation itself doesn't really mean anything aside from "if you fark up again during this period we fry your ***" (though it can prevent you from enrolling in some student orgs or running for officer positions.) I got 6 months for coming back to the dorms tipsy once and getting caught by a ballbuster RA. I did really like the focus on reflection/counseling during the probation, though. Fine, 12 months.

                      If he does it again, drop the banhammer, absolutely.

                      ETA: It was a full suspension with campus ban, but was dropped to probation and the ban lifted after the Student Affairs board met.
                      At tUMD, for drinking, it was a warning, then community service/counseling, then banhammer from the dorms. Once off the dorms, I think the third offense was suspension/expulsion, depending on circumstances, in addition to any legal repercussions (drunk in public, etc)
                      Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                      Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                      Comment

                      • #146
                        Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                        Originally posted by Twitch Boy View Post
                        Conduct probation itself doesn't really mean anything aside from "if you fark up again during this period we fry your ***" (though it can prevent you from enrolling in some student orgs or running for officer positions.) I got 6 months for coming back to the dorms tipsy once and getting caught by a ballbuster RA. I did really like the focus on reflection/counseling during the probation, though. Fine, 12 months.

                        If he does it again, drop the banhammer, absolutely.

                        ETA: It was a full suspension with campus ban, but was dropped to probation and the ban lifted after the Student Affairs board met.
                        The questions are...

                        ...What was the intent of Schultz's post?

                        ...what was Ryan Grainger's history with MTU?

                        ...why did Dean Gorman pursue Schultz, in lieu of Grainger, after it became clear Grainger edited the orginal post?

                        ...what was Dean Gorman's authority as far as expulsions, after a decision had already been rendered by a panel?

                        Comment

                        • #147
                          Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                          Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                          The questions are...

                          ...What was the intent of Schultz's post?

                          ...what was Ryan Grainger's history with MTU?

                          ...why did Dean Gorman pursue Schultz, in lieu of Grainger, after it became clear Grainger edited the orginal post?

                          ...what was Dean Gorman's authority as far as expulsions, after a decision had already been rendered by a panel?
                          Enquiring minds want to know!
                          http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5XvBYfxU_dM/St...png?imgmax=800
                          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                          Comment

                          • #148
                            Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                            Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                            Enquiring minds want to know!
                            http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5XvBYfxU_dM/St...png?imgmax=800
                            Ha. Stop.

                            I want serious answers.

                            Comment

                            • #149
                              Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                              Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                              Ha. Stop.

                              I want serious answers.
                              I do, too, but your post required an obligatory response, based on the presentation of your questions.
                              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                              Comment

                              • #150
                                Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                                Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                                I do, too, but your post required an obligatory response, based on the presentation of your questions.
                                "The answer to these questions, and many more, on the next episode of the WCHA"

                                I missed that part.

                                Comment

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