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Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

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  • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

    Originally posted by unofan View Post
    Do all triggers act alike, or are there differences? In other words, if I can fire gun X four times in a second, will I necessarily be able to fire gun Y at the same speed? Or are some made to be fired more rapidly than others? Assuming both are semi-automatic.

    In other words, is it entirely dependent on the human, or do the mechanics of the gun play a role?
    Some triggers fire with less movement than others. Still, as The Sicatoka provided with that video, a man can still fire a long triggered revolver (revolvers are generally slower to fire than those guns that hold their rounds in the handle, and longer triggers also slow down the action) eight times in a single second.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

    Comment


    • Originally posted by unofan View Post
      Do all triggers act alike, or are there differences? In other words, if I can fire gun X four times in a second, will I necessarily be able to fire gun Y at the same speed? Or are some made to be fired more rapidly than others? Assuming both are semi-automatic.

      In other words, is it entirely dependent on the human, or do the mechanics of the gun play a role?
      Well, some guns have a "lighter" pull weight, some "heavier". Some have a longer "range" to engage the firing mechanism. There are honestly quite a few variables to be able to answer your question(s), as it is different for all firearms.

      Of course, "slapping" the trigger, as one tends to do with a shotgun more than a rifle ("squeezing" the trigger is more common with rifles, as it enhances accuracy/precision) can take care of most pull "weight" differences.

      Comment


      • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

        Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
        Stop using the argument that a fire would've been just as effective. Given the fact that fire codes and fire departments exist and the fact that a fire would give people several minutes of reaction time versus the milliseconds of a gun, it's a silly argument.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_St...nightclub_fire
        A bad cause requires many words.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
          Will have to post this again (and again). This former military officer says the AR 15 fires about 180 rounds a minute. Even with a 30 magazine...that's 30 casualties.

          https://www.quora.com/How-many-round...ire-per-minute
          Bad link, but having already looked at it when you previously posted it, he felt it was reasonable that the 180 rounds/minute was able to be attained, but never said it could actually be done. As I countered, you would likely overheat/jam before then, let alone muscle fatigue and reloading. You could quite likely reach very similar levels (whatever those may be) with any semi-automatic weapon.

          For the record, for sustained firing, most manufacturer, and military, recommendations is 12-15 rounds per minute.



          Not sure if one Mexico City gun shop provides 30-40% of the guns...especially when they're primarily used near the US border. The broader point is that guns are causing widespread death on both sides of the border.
          Or, you know, also smuggled from other countries.

          Comment


          • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

            I was about to mention that very thing. Just because the fire codes exist doesn't mean the club is safe.
            "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

            "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

            "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

            Comment


            • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

              Here's the link on AR 15's high rate of fire by a former military officer...updated an hour ago:

              Since the cycle time of the weapon is faster than the speed at which you can pull the trigger, the answer is that it can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger.

              Technically, the AR-15 fires 800 rounds a minute (source: Wikipedia), which is 13.3 rounds per second. This is the “cycle rate” of the weapon, assuming it could be fired as fast as physically possible and had a bottomless magazine. We know that fanning your index finger is going to be much slower than that, so saying 180 rounds per minute is actually a very, very reasonable number. Except that you'd never get there, because you can only fire 30 (or 10 in Colorado, or 7 in New York) rounds from a standard magazine.

              In Air Force Security Forces duties protecting stateside assets, I would routinely carry four magazines (three in a belt pouch and one in the weapon) for a total of 120 rounds.


              A clip of 30 would cause devastation...and he says he would carry four magazines.

              https://www.quora.com/How-many-round...ire-per-minute

              And take a look at this clip. It shows that an AR 15 can easily reach this rate of fire.

              https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/ar-15-bump-fire-legal/

              We need to ban weapons capable of this.
              Last edited by 5mn_Major; 06-15-2016, 11:29 AM.
              Go Gophers!

              Comment


              • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                I was about to mention that very thing. Just because the fire codes exist doesn't mean the club is safe.
                Alright, so is the fire code pointless?

                Comment


                • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                  Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                  Will have to post this again (and again). This former military officer says the AR 15 fires about 180 rounds a minute. Even with a 30 magazine...that's 30 casualties.

                  https://www.quora.com/How-many-round...ire-per-minute

                  The only pack this type of fire power kills is humans. You can see the AR 15 in action in this clip.

                  https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/ar-15-bump-fire-legal/

                  We need to ban weapons capable of this.
                  Your first link is bad; and, your math has a problem. Say your 180 rpm is accurate (and I still don't believe that due to mechanical constraints, like heat), and a 30 round magazine, that's 1/6 of a minute to empty the magazine -- 10 seconds. Very few will get onto 30 targets in 10 seconds. (Not saying, just saying.)

                  I've seen an AR with a bump stock. I do have a problem with that; that to me is a mechanical modification to make an automatic weapon.
                  The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                  North Dakota Hockey:

                  Comment


                  • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                    Originally posted by GrinCDXX View Post
                    Alright, so is the fire code pointless?
                    No, we need to stop the Pollyanna beliefs that laws, codes, registrations, and regulation is panacea.
                    The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                    North Dakota Hockey:

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                      No, we need to stop the Pollyanna beliefs that laws, codes, registrations, and regulation is panacea.
                      Likewise, the other side needs to recognize that we are a nation of laws, codes, registrations, and regulations and stop pretending that they serve no purpose.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                        Originally posted by GrinCDXX View Post
                        Alright, so is the fire code pointless?
                        No.

                        Check out the investigation of the fire and you'll see mistakes were made.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_St...#Investigation
                        A bad cause requires many words.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                          Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                          We need to ban weapons capable of this.
                          No, no we don't.

                          It is a semi-automatic rifle, if you are banning this, based on this information, a wide swath of semi-automatic hunting rifles, potentially shotguns, handguns, all revolvers would be outlawed. It cannot happen.
                          Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                          RIP - Kirby

                          Comment


                          • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                            You don't seem to fight any other restrictions on any other amendment as you do the 2nd. Here's your opportunity to speak out for the rest. Go for it. That's my point. Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.
                            Maybe it's because there are numerous challenges to that amendment on here, but not the other ones, at least in the threads I participate? If someone wants to talk about a restriction to an amendment, I'd be more than happy to cross-examine that person's claim. How about how most traffic courts violate the 7th amendment? Perhaps a violation of the 8th amendment with "mandatory minimums", applied both federally and with the states (10th amendment provision)? "No-knock raids" typically violating the 4th amendment, as they usually don't have warrants? Let me know if you'd like me to go on.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                              Originally posted by unofan View Post
                              Likewise, the other side needs to recognize that we are a nation of laws, codes, registrations, and regulations and stop pretending that they serve no purpose.
                              They serve purpose when they are respected. And there's the core issue: Respect the laws we already have.
                              The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                              North Dakota Hockey:

                              Comment


                              • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                                Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                                Say your 180 rpm is accurate (and I still don't believe that due to mechanical constraints, like heat), and a 30 round magazine, that's 1/6 of a minute to empty the magazine -- 10 seconds. Very few will get onto 30 targets in 10 seconds. (Not saying, just saying.)

                                I've seen an AR with a bump stock. I do have a problem with that; that to me is a mechanical modification to make an automatic weapon.
                                Below's the link and its not my math. The problem with the weapon is that in hunting...there is no way that you can hit 30 targets in 10 seconds. In a crowded night club or a mall...you can definitely hit 30 targets in ten seconds. Also based on posters on AR.com, one can reload a magazine in about 3 seconds.

                                So for AR 15, one second to fire 30 rounds, a handful of seconds to reload, one second to fire. The argument this is not that dangerous is bs.

                                Here's the link on AR 15's high rate of fire by a former military officer...updated an hour ago:

                                Since the cycle time of the weapon is faster than the speed at which you can pull the trigger, the answer is that it can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger.

                                Technically, the AR-15 fires 800 rounds a minute (source: Wikipedia), which is 13.3 rounds per second. This is the “cycle rate” of the weapon, assuming it could be fired as fast as physically possible and had a bottomless magazine. We know that fanning your index finger is going to be much slower than that, so saying 180 rounds per minute is actually a very, very reasonable number. Except that you'd never get there, because you can only fire 30 (or 10 in Colorado, or 7 in New York) rounds from a standard magazine.

                                In Air Force Security Forces duties protecting stateside assets, I would routinely carry four magazines (three in a belt pouch and one in the weapon) for a total of 120 rounds.


                                A clip of 30 would cause devastation...and he says he would carry four magazines.

                                https://www.quora.com/How-many-round...ire-per-minute

                                And take a look at this clip. It shows that an AR 15 can easily reach this rate of fire.

                                https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/ar-15-bump-fire-legal/

                                We need to ban weapons capable of this.

                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                                No, no we don't.

                                It is a semi-automatic rifle, if you are banning this, based on this information, a wide swath of semi-automatic hunting rifles, potentially shotguns, handguns, all revolvers would be outlawed. It cannot happen.
                                Maybe the solution to our problem is greater than we thought. Slight mods to guns and they would be just as useful for hunting and self defense, and much less so for mass murder.
                                Go Gophers!

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