Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

[ScoobyDoo]

That flag was in a school environment. You're all missing the point.

[joecct]

That flag was in a school environment. You're all missing the point.

And schools can control, within reason, what is permitted/forbidden on their property.

Some go overboard, most are reasonable.

[Handyman]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

No I get the school part of it, but just banning it at the school is not going to have any affect overall except to embolden those that feel they are being persecuted anyways.

And anyways it isnt the flag that was the problem, it was the fake hanging...

[The Rube]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

No I get the school part of it, but just banning it at the school is not going to have any affect overall except to embolden those that feel they are being persecuted anyways.

And anyways it isnt the flag that was the problem, it was the fake hanging...

And I still maintain that the MAJORITY of today's youths see it as a symbolism of Southern pride/living/country boy (think: Skynyrd) rather than a form of oppression/racism, etc. You CAN change the meaning of a symbol (*sigh* gonna bring up the Nazi symbol, because that is the most obvious).

I don't see it as a symbol of racism at this day and age. I see it, and think: Okay, loves country music, pickup trucks, simple living. None of that city-folk rat-race stuff.

[St. Clown]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

And I still maintain that the MAJORITY of today's youths see it as a symbolism of Southern pride/living/country boy (think: Skynyrd) rather than a form of oppression/racism, etc. You CAN change the meaning of a symbol (*sigh* gonna bring up the Nazi symbol, because that is the most obvious).

I don't see it as a symbol of racism at this day and age. I see it, and think: Okay, loves country music, pickup trucks, simple living. None of that city-folk rat-race stuff.

I think that unless we live or were raised in the areas in which they cling to that specific flag, we can't truly understand what that thing means to those people who were raised with it. And no answer would ever be simple as some would give us the most vile answers and other might bring us a great amount of hope.

That said, banning that flag on campus, like Handy said, won't fix anything. It'll just upset those who still cling to it and cause them to create more problems.

[The Rube]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

I think that unless we live or were raised in the areas in which they cling to that specific flag, we can't truly understand what that thing means to those people who were raised with it. And no answer would ever be simple as some would give us the most vile answers and other might bring us a great amount of hope.

That said, banning that flag on campus, like Handy said, won't fix anything. It'll just upset those who still cling to it and cause them to create more problems.

I agree that there are some that still raise that flag for other reasons, in areas where we don't live (meaning you and I). Do not like those reasons at all.

And I also agree banning it won't fix anything, but I support the right to ban it in the workplace/schools/etc. It's NOT covered under free speech, so no worries. I DO worry about people who instantly think "racist" when someone has a shirt/bumper sticker/etc with that flag. That's my main issue with this whole thing. Yes, it's possible, but in this day and age, that is most likely NOT the reason they are displaying that flag.

[Handyman]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

I think you are overestimating the "Southern Pride" angle by a lot. I think you are also rather naive if you dont think "Southern Pride" has a small (sometimes large) amount of racism inherent in it. Saying "The South Shall Rise Again" (like they did at Ole Miss until recently) isnt just a rallying cry for diseffected Southerners...it is a cry for the ways of the old Confederacy and that implies certain racial issues whether you want to admit it or not. Same with the flags...yes the Flags themselves dont mean anything but I bet to Black people below the Mason-Dixon Line it means something completely different than your random yokel in Robbinsdale trolling around in his crappy ole pickup. Just like to people in parts of Asia the swatsika doesnt mean evil murdering Jew Haters...but guess what if they display one to my grandparents it wont matter what their intent was.

It is like the argument over Native names...yes me and you might think it is stupid, the schools/teams might not mean it in any way to be racist or demeaning, but that doesnt mean it isnt. We dont control how others see things and experience them.

[The Rube]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

I think you are overestimating the "Southern Pride" angle by a lot. I think you are also rather naive if you dont think "Southern Pride" has a small (sometimes large) amount of racism inherent in it. Saying "The South Shall Rise Again" (like they did at Ole Miss until recently) isnt just a rallying cry for diseffected Southerners...it is a cry for the ways of the old Confederacy and that implies certain racial issues whether you want to admit it or not. Same with the flags...yes the Flags themselves dont mean anything but I bet to Black people below the Mason-Dixon Line it means something completely different than your random yokel in Robbinsdale trolling around in his crappy ole pickup. Just like to people in parts of Asia the swatsika doesnt mean evil murdering Jew Haters...but guess what if they display one to my grandparents it wont matter what their intent was.

It is like the argument over Native names...yes me and you might think it is stupid, the schools/teams might not mean it in any way to be racist or demeaning, but that doesnt mean it isnt. We dont control how others see things and experience them.

That's why I mentioned (along with Clown) where we live. I'm sure there are more people in the South that think differently, BUT, BUT, I think more of the younger white generation DON'T associate racism with the flag. Some do, sure. Can't even argue that point. But a majority? I am uncertain the majority think that.

[Handyman]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

I think you are wrong, but neither of us can prove it either way.

[The Rube]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

I think you are wrong, but neither of us can prove it either way.

Agreed on proving it. It's just such a touchy subject, and many will mask/spin their words, so the truth may never come out.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

With quite a few family members still living in the deep south I have zero doubts it still means what it's always meant - some of the meaning being positive mind you - but it hasn't waned Brent. For eff sake the flag is distracting from the fact at least one kid put a friggin noose around the neck of a black student. If that's not part and parcel I don't know what would be.

[The Rube]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

With quite a few family members still living in the deep south I have zero doubts it still means what it's always meant - some of the meaning being positive mind you - but it hasn't waned Brent. For eff sake the flag is distracting from the fact at least one kid put a friggin noose around the neck of a black student. If that's not part and parcel I don't know what would be.

Don't get me wrong, that noose thing is disgusting. And I know there is a populace that still supports that. Horrible. I'm just asking that the public isn't so quick to judge based on the flag only. That's all.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

Don't get me wrong, that noose thing is disgusting. And I know there is a populace that still supports that. Horrible. I'm just asking that the public isn't so quick to judge based on the flag only. That's all.

If there was no noose incident we wouldn't be having this discussion - the flag is incidental possibly even inconsequential. Blaming the flag for people discussing racism still exists is as bad as blaming the flag for causing racism in the first place. Most people wouldn't give a rat's ass about the flag if racism died off.

[unofan]

I agree that there are some that still raise that flag for other reasons, in areas where we don't live (meaning you and I). Do not like those reasons at all.

And I also agree banning it won't fix anything, but I support the right to ban it in the workplace/schools/etc. It's NOT covered under free speech, so no worries. I DO worry about people who instantly think "racist" when someone has a shirt/bumper sticker/etc with that flag. That's my main issue with this whole thing. Yes, it's possible, but in this day and age, that is most likely NOT the reason they are displaying that flag.

I disagree. Because as much as you say it's a country/city thing, change city to "urban" and country to "redneck", and you're really close to saying "black" and "white."

And people from union states saying it's a symbol of heritage is farking hilarious in about ten different respects.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

With quite a few family members still living in the deep south I have zero doubts it still means what it's always meant - some of the meaning being positive mind you - but it hasn't waned Brent. For eff sake the flag is distracting from the fact at least one kid put a friggin noose around the neck of a black student. If that's not part and parcel I don't know what would be.

Isn't the idea of putting a noose around a kids neck terrible, regardless of the race of the kid? Would it be any less terrible if it was an asian kid or a native kid or a white kid? I don't think so. People of all races have been hanged. To me, regardless of who they did this to, it is a terrible act.