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Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

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  • #61
    Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

    Originally posted by Rover View Post
    Not too much I wouldn't think. The theory is that if you taxed the trading of whoever's managing your retirement fund for example they'd pass those costs onto you in the form of higher fees. That might be true to some extent but there's a limit as to how much of an increase they could sock you with. Frankly I like the idea of limiting this to just high speed trading as that's not skill related but just a computer capitalizing on a fractional difference in a share price.

    I also agree with the dismissal of the notion that trading would go elsewhere. New York and London are the big trading centers. You're not going to outsource the exchange to Vietnam in order to get away from this tax.
    I can't speak to any accounts under management by my employer that are outside my group's domain, but all taxes and fees charged by outside entities (foreign governments, the SEC, etc.) are enumerated and passed through to the client without any markup on our part. Our commission is also listed as a separate item for each trade. We go to great attempts to make all transactions as transparent as possible between us and our clients.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

      Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
      I can't speak to any accounts under management by my employer that are outside my group's domain, but all taxes and fees charged by outside entities (foreign governments, the SEC, etc.) are enumerated and passed through to the client without any markup on our part. Our commission is also listed as a separate item for each trade. We go to great attempts to make all transactions as transparent as possible between us and our clients.
      This is all good. What I'm curious about in terms of high speed trading is for whom is the majority of that trading done for? As in the companies themselves making easy money via a sophisticated computer driven model or are they doing this on behalf of clients? I don't know the answer to that as I've been out of that business for awhile now.
      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        This is all good. What I'm curious about in terms of high speed trading is for whom is the majority of that trading done for? As in the companies themselves making easy money via a sophisticated computer driven model or are they doing this on behalf of clients? I don't know the answer to that as I've been out of that business for awhile now.
        Well, then you're looking at taxing mutual fund trusts, who will pass along their taxes to fund holders, which will mostly be the general public. Investment banks and brokerages will get hit more, too, likely the most. Stock purchase plans offered through employers could see a big uptick in their taxation rates, too, since Bobby in marketing wants to sell on day X, while Suzy sells on day Y. Like you said, with many smaller trades you lose out on fractional rounding issues during sales. Most of the fees are aggregated into pools, forming what's essentially a single-asset mutual fund. Purchases, for the most part, would still be limited to the payroll cycle and therefore not impact quite as much.
        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          I Snopesed this to see if he actually had said it, or if it was the usual Echo Chamber context ploy, but nope, it's true he really did say it. However, there's a great stinger in the tail that it apparently led to a righty tin foil narrative of Marine Todd-level idiocy.

          Those folks never disappoint.

          OTOH, that lapel pin is genuinely funny, marking perhaps the only recorded instance of a righty having a working sense of humor.
          I know you and I have discussed the lapel pin before. I've always wanted one because it's a fantastic inside joke to those who get it.
          Code:
          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by geezer View Post
            Help me out - is there any downside for regular people (not bankers and day traders) in taxing trades?
            Your mutual funds expense ratio would likely at least double.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

              Originally posted by Rover View Post
              Not too much I wouldn't think. The theory is that if you taxed the trading of whoever's managing your retirement fund for example they'd pass those costs onto you in the form of higher fees. That might be true to some extent but there's a limit as to how much of an increase they could sock you with. Frankly I like the idea of limiting this to just high speed trading as that's not skill related but just a computer capitalizing on a fractional difference in a share price.

              I also agree with the dismissal of the notion that trading would go elsewhere. New York and London are the big trading centers. You're not going to outsource the exchange to Vietnam in order to get away from this tax.
              Agreed. HFT takes advantage of a "bug" that simply isn't available to even the well above average schmo. I am ok with regulating/taxing these transactions.

              Also agree on that last paragraph.
              Code:
              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
              Originally posted by SanTropez
              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
              Originally posted by Kepler
              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                Elections are about finding coalitions and bringing people together, otherwise we're no better than the Republicans.
                Yes
                Go Gophers!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                  I can't wait for the School House Rock about this.
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                  • #69
                    Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                    Originally posted by Almington View Post
                    Your mutual funds expense ratio would likely at least double.
                    It's a good point that these would hit pension funds and 401(k)s (investments that are not managed day-to-day by their owners), but I'm OK with that. We need the revenue to fix bridges, and might as well be taxing the kind of people who own investments as opposed to more sales taxes on goods and gas... half the people in my circle don't have anything at all invested outside their home equity. And it would depress willy-nilly day trading and speculation & insider trading & other fraud.
                    But most mutual funds are not making rapid regular adjustments, right? I don't know for sure, but I picture your average S&P tracker investment fund or Emerging Market Fund to be making a trade from their pool maybe once a week or month. And the 0.5% to be taxed on the portion of the portion of the equity that was traded, which might be 2% (that's a high guess) of what is in the whole fund. So it doesn't seem like much of a drop in the bucket of total management fees. Obviously it would affect them somewhat, but "double"? Also, if it passed it would create a new disincentive to trade which would slow the rate at which trades happen (and drop the revenue that's being projected from the tax, no doubt)
                    I'm not sure on a lot of this but it seems like a good idea.
                    Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                    USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                      Correct
                      You are not sure of anything
                      a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        I can't wait for the School House Rock about this.
                        I love the phrase "interloping Michiganders." It brings back fond memories of Tech making the old-school Final Five that time.
                        Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                        Correct
                        You are not sure of anything
                        That's the only thing I've learned for sure in the last decade.
                        Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                        USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                          Interesting 538 round table on NY.

                          tl; dr: Clinton +15, she successfully fights back the narrative that Bernie will overtake her; Clinton +5, nothing changes, this race is still an ambivalence wrapped in an ambiguity wrapped in a sweater; Sanders +5: Sharknado!

                          My bet is Clinton +11 as she continues wheezing and shuddering towards Bethlehem.
                          Last edited by Kepler; 04-19-2016, 02:40 PM.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Interesting 538 round table on NY.

                            tl; dr: Clinton +15, she successfully fights back the narrative that Bernie will overtake her; Clinton +5, nothing changes, this race is still an ambivalence wrapped in an ambiguity wrapped in a sweater; Sanders +5: Sharknado!

                            My bet is Clinton +11 as she continues wheezing and shuddering towards Bethlehem.
                            As I've said before, love or hate Hillary or Bernie, but there are no more moral victories. Sanders needs to win more delegates than Hillary in New York. Anything less than that and he's getting that much closer to the end of the runway. Its not any more complicated than that.
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                              I think HRC wins very comfortably in the cities. I'll be very interested how Bernie does in the rural areas.
                              CCT '77 & '78
                              4 kids
                              5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                              1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

                                Originally posted by geezer View Post
                                But most mutual funds are not making rapid regular adjustments, right? I don't know for sure, but I picture your average S&P tracker investment fund or Emerging Market Fund to be making a trade from their pool maybe once a week or month.
                                Wrong. Mutual funds are some of the highest volume traders there are in the markets. By definition, a mutual fund is a collection of investments of at least 20 underlying assets, but could have hundreds to thousands of underlying assets that make up the fund. There are limits as to what percentage a fund can be invested in a single asset, which will trigger automatic sales and purchases for various assets within the fund. Those values are set by the fund manager or management team. While the fund may own $10mm in that asset, due to market fluctuations and the stated goal of the fund within the prospectus, the fund may have to sell a certain amount of its underlying asset or purchase more of said asset to meet prospectus goals and investor expectations. And it happens everyday, sometimes multiple times each day. Add to that, if it's an open-ended mutual fund (most are), new cash intake has to be invested daily when its cash on hand exceeds certain thresholds. As simple as a mutual fund sounds, it's really a complicated situation for someone not familiar with them to try to understand.
                                "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                                "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                                "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                                Comment

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