Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Catholic church rules the bread can be made from GMO, and must have some gluten.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-says-vatican

I can only imagine what Jesus is thinking. Pretty sure the early church didn't have bread made of wheat. Why are they obsessed with gluten? Do they have investment in wheat fields?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Agreed. This is ridiculous.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Agreed. This is ridiculous.

This came up in one of our town Parishes. They refused the kid the gluten free (severe, life threatening allergy) so another Parish stepped up. Now what? Can't remember where I read it but it was postulated the grain used in Jesus time would have been made of Barley- http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyc...sbe/bread.html
The loaf of bread is thus made to include everything and, for this reason also, it may ... To the disciples of Jesus, no doubt, "Give us this day our daily bread" would ... Barley was in early times, as it is today, the main bread-stuff of the Palestine ...

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

One such is "Ezekiel’s Bread". If the name sounds familiar it’s because you may have seen it at your health food store. It's full of healthful sounding ingredients like “barley, beans, lentils and millet” (Ezekiel 4:9).
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/1.567107

http://hcscchurch.org/wp-content/upl...14/08/food.pdf
Bread was the essential, basic food. So basic
was it that in Hebrew “to eat bread” and “to have
a meal” in the same thing. Bread was treated with
great respect and many rules existed to preserve
that reverence. Any crumbs of over the size of an
olive were expected to be gathered, and never
simply discarded. Bread was never to be cut, but
always broken. The poor ate barley bread, the
rich the bread of wheat. Barley or wheat grains
were ground between two millstones, almost
always by women, and this was done at home.
From this the flower and then the dough was
made and worked in needing troughs. To make
the heavy barley bread rise, women use very
strong millets, and barley yeast. The loaves were
usually made round, such that one spoke of “a
round of bread,” or simply “a round.” Because
bread would become moldy very soon, one would only bake enough for a day or two.

Bolded thing has me thinking perhaps the Church is out of touch

Well, this is fascinating. I am supposed to be going to the market and instead I am googling stuff. Oops!

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Frankly, who cares what grain Jesus used? It's a metaphor. Jesus would be appalled at refusing communion to someone because he or she couldn't eat the bread.

This is precisely why I got away from organized religion. Too much exclusion, which is absolutely in direct conflict with what the teachings command.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

The little 'wafers' have gluten? Could've fooled me back in the day.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Frankly, who cares what grain Jesus used? It's a metaphor. Jesus would be appalled at refusing communion to someone because he or she couldn't eat the bread.

This is precisely why I got away from organized religion. Too much exclusion, which is absolutely in direct conflict with what the teachings command.

I think there are plenty of organized religions that have not lost the way and become obsessed with man-made rules (obviously they forgot to read large portions of Matthew!). If they tried this in my church there would be a revolution. We not only have grape juice and gluten free bread but we also specifically verbally and printed in the bulletin invite anyone to the table who believes, regardless of what their affiliation is. Wording something to the effect that to not do so would be against the teachings of Christ (vague paraphrasing)

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Frankly, who cares what grain Jesus used? It's a metaphor. Jesus would be appalled at refusing communion to someone because he or she couldn't eat the bread.

joe and our other Catholics can help me, but I don't understand why what the wafer is before the blessing matters at all. The transubstantiation formula is x + in persona Christi = Jesus cutlet. x literally does not matter. It could be a Twinkie. Or a tire iron.

Edit. OK, a little bit of research and there are canon statements about this. Basically, Holy Mother Church (or the Whore of Babylon, depending on how you feel about Her) has statutes protecting Big Unleavened Bread.

Canon 924: “The Most Sacred Eucharistic Sacrifice must be celebrated with bread and wine, with which a small quantity of water is to be mixed. The bread must be made of wheat alone recently made so that there is no danger of corruption. The wine must be natural wine of the grape and not corrupt.”

Canon 926: “In accord with the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, the priest is to use unleavened bread in the celebration of the Eucharist whenever he offers it.”

The "reasons" offered in defense of this appear to be mere casuistry, or "C+ Catholicism." I doubt any decent Dr. RC Th. would even bother to defend them with anything more than "the Church says so and until She says different that's that. Ours not to wonder why."

[joecct]

joe and our other Catholics can help me, but I don't understand why what the wafer is before the blessing matters at all. The transubstantiation formula is x + in persona Christi = Jesus cutlet. x literally does not matter. It could be a Twinkie. Or a tire iron.

Not quite. Remember, the Mass continues the tradition of the Last Supper. This may help.

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/11/...lidity-part-i/

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Not quite. Remember, the Mass continues the tradition of the Last Supper. This may help.

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/11/...lidity-part-i/

I'm not diggin' this limitations on God stuff. God can turn Khloe Kardashian into the body and blood of Christ if He has a mind to. The priest is invoking God with the magic words. The tradition is comforting (and a boon to whichever Cardinal controls the contract) but it should not be regarded as necessary.

This is the sort of silliness that makes Protestants.

[joecct]

I'm not diggin' this limitations on God, stuff. God can turn Khloe Kardashian into the body and blood of Christ if He has a mind to. The priest is invoking God with the magic words. The tradition is comforting (and a boon to whichever Cardinal controls the contract) but it should not be regarded as necessary.

This is the sort of silliness that makes Protestants.

Thou art Peter........
&
Whose sins....

On the flip side, at least Lutherans still kneel for communion. The idiot USCCB (whick is more like the Sacred Order of Buffaloes than a religious body) thinks you stand and receive communion in the hand.

You want instantaneous change. Holy Mother Church believes in change, too. It just takes a while longer (millenium).

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Thou art Peter

I know that one! Matthew 16:18. Church authority rests on it ever since they admitted the world's worst kept secret.

There's also the one about the Church binding and loosening on earth and in heaven. Matthew 18:18.

Sounds like Matthew was being paid for cross-promotion of the Holy See.

But this one?

Whose sins....

[joecct]

I know that one! Matthew 16:18. Church authority rests on it ever since they admitted the world's worst kept secret.

There's also the one about the Church binding and loosening on earth and in heaven. Matthew 18:18.

Sounds like Matthew was being paid for cross-promotion of the Holy See.

But this one?

The Sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation.
Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven. Whose sins you shall retain they are retained.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Whose sins you shall retain they are retained.

I missed that part. Why do you retain somebody's sins? Just to be a dick?

[joecct]

I missed that part. Why do you retain somebody's sins? Just to be a dick?

The Act of Contrition. Said as the priest is giving absolution.

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins, because of thy just punishment, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God , who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace to sin no more and avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.

You must be repentant and resolve to sin no more. If you're not sorry for your sins, no absolution.

At least that's the theory.