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Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by Kepler View PostI fully agree religion doesn't create violence, but the absolutism of religion has historically been fecund ground for violent rhetoric and action. Certainty breeds overreach.
Originally posted by busterman62 View PostGo Gophers!
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post...OK...so say you (as a human) were assigned to develop the canon for what would soon to be the Bible, with the purpose of documenting Jesus (God). Jesus quoted 24 OT books and He was anticipated in many of those. You have two choices. You include the Old Testament or throw it away. Why would you not include it? It doesn't mean that you worship the Bible over Jesus/God - even if Catholic doctrine thinks you should. That belief system started for the exits with the printing of the Bible and Luther. OTOH, Atheists have an even more rigid worldview of Christianity than all but the most extreme Christian as is evident here.
And absolutely, Jesus contradicted the OT. In fact, Jesus primary purpose was to set the record straight. 'You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth; But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.' For an atheist with an overly rigid worldview, this is heresy. For a Christian, we now know what to believe. By definition, the Gospels are not the 'be all' but they are the 'end all'.
I had a Rabbinical student as a patient who explained to me that part of Judaism is the practice of questioning and discussion regarding the meaning of different parts of the 'scriptures', This was to foster a deeper understanding of the reasoning and meaning of what was written. It is not in anyway supposed to be viewed rigidly. There are passages where Jesus was practicing this when he discussed the meaning of passages.
As we have clearly seen here different Christians certainly have different views about the 'correct' interpretation of Christianity. Atheists being defined as having such narrow views of Christianity is not accurate. I find they are much more open minded and knowledgeable about the various versions of Christianity than the avg Christian.
Originally posted by Kepler View PostThis is untrue. I fully agree religion doesn't create violence, but the absolutism of religion has historically been fecund ground for violent rhetoric and action. Certainty breeds overreach.
If you start from the assumption, "I don't know," you are apt to be cautious and modest, and suggest partial and conditional actions.
If you start from the assumption, "I know absolutely," you are apt to be reckless and arrogant, and demand comprehensive and sweeping actions.
Originally posted by 5mn_Major View PostIn the US or in all probability worldwide, religion is far more likely to create acts of generosity (including saving lives) than violence...by millions to one.
Not judging them...just came up with organizations with codes.
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by leswp1 View PostReligion is not the cause of anything. The use of religion to support a position of violence, exclusionism or anything else is just the tool a person/culture has to support what they want.Cornell University
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by 5mn_Major View PostAtheists have an even more rigid worldview of Christianity than all but the most extreme Christian as is evident here.
God is just one more of an infinity of hypotheses I don't accept. I also don't believe in Russell's teapot, but the only time I would think about it and talk about it would be when confronted by an Orthodox Teapotian (a Reformed Teapotian would be cool and just brew and let brew).
As a believer, the world revolves around God. But as a non-believer, the world doesn't revolve around not-God. Not-God's a hypothesis I accept, but it's an obvious one like not-Moon-cheese and not at all important to me except when Godfolk try and force their ideology down my throat.
A devout Christian would probably list being a Christian as one of the three or four most important things to know about them. Being an atheist isn't even in my top 40.Last edited by Kepler; 05-10-2016, 11:43 AM.Cornell University
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Originally posted by 5mn_Major View PostYou didn't answer my question about the basis of your assertion that teachings can and should go against Jesus. But as usual, I will address your point.
Just because you disagree with the Catholic interpretation doesn't make the Church's position somehow less Christian or valid than your own.Last edited by unofan; 05-10-2016, 12:02 PM.
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by leswp1 View PostWhy do you either have to reject the OT or include it? Is there no grey? IMHO Faith is more like a living organism than an inert object. It is not meant to be stagnant. Over the years it has changed within the context of culture, environment, exposure to variables. Every change has been embraced by some and vilified by others. I imagine how we practice faith/interpret the Bible now would be unrecognizable (and probably baffling) to the Disciples. Consider that each of the Gospels was written for a different audience- Jews of the time, Gentiles, Romans, all had different cultures and they were written to appeal to the culture being addressed. We are looking at all of them through the lens of the modern world which skews the meaning. ONe of the most interesting things I have heard about the Bible was Jews at the time didn't tell a story to address detail but to get the point across. So- the important thing should be figuring out what the message is, not the minutia.)
Originally posted by leswp1 View PostAs we have clearly seen here different Christians certainly have different views about the 'correct' interpretation of Christianity. Atheists being defined as having such narrow views of Christianity is not accurate. I find they are much more open minded and knowledgeable about the various versions of Christianity than the avg Christian.
Originally posted by leswp1 View PostDon't know if I agree with this, much as I would like to. In my area there are way more acts of generosity, etc from secular organizations than churches or faith based groups. On the other hand there are all sorts of silly movements spawned by Faith based organizations to tell people how to live their lives (the Christian version of Sharia law).
http://www.forbes.com/top-charities/Go Gophers!
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by Kepler View PostThis is a category error. You keep trying to claim that not being a stamp collector is just being a VERY narrow stamp collector. Atheism is not anti-theism, it's a-theism. Here is the difference in a way I think you'll see. As a believer, you are often cognizant of your belief throughout the day. As a non-believer, the only time I think about religion is when I'm debating a believer. I do not view a beautiful bird and think "look at that ENTIRELY NON-SUPERNATURAL bird," and when I sit down to eat I don't begin with a prayer to "our ENTIRELY NATURAL AND MECHANISTIC EMPIRICALLY-OBSERVABLE universe."
God is just one more of an infinity of hypotheses I don't accept. I also don't believe in Russell's teapot, but the only time I would think about it and talk about it would be when confronted by an Orthodox Teapotian (a Reformed Teapotian would be cool and just brew and let brew).
As a believer, the world revolves around God. But as a non-believer, the world doesn't revolve around not-God. Not-God's a hypothesis I accept, but it's an obvious one like not-Moon-cheese and not at all important to me except when Godfolk try and force their ideology down my throat.
A devout Christian would probably list being a Christian as one of the three or four most important things to know about them. Being an atheist isn't even in my top 40.Go Gophers!
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Guys, this is really simple. Jesus is God. He corrected the OT as needed and set the record straight. His Word as God trumps the balance of the Bible. By definition, His concepts are what matters for Christians. Whether you believe so or not, faith improves many lives by giving those strength, companionship and a code to live by. Violence in faith as a percentage is tiny...and therefore, a causal correlation of faith to violence does not exist. Positive outcomes driven by faith based motivations have included major changes in society including charity, healthcare, civil rights, slavery, etc...and no its not the only giving, but Christianity continues to dominate charitable giving and organization. Sorry, but atheists get all that wrong.Go Gophers!
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by 5mn_Major View PostSorry, but atheists get all that wrong.
x til you're blue; we don't care. Just don't act like you have the right to x in our face, cuz you don't.Cornell University
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by Kepler View PostNo, it's that atheists don't care about all that. You keep trying to discuss the superiority of painting with oil vs acrylics with people who dance. All your arguments are pre-locked and loaded for people you think are against x. We keep trying to tell you that knowing x isn't real isn't the same thing as being against x.
x til you're blue; we don't care. Just don't act like you have the right to x in our face, cuz you don't.Go Gophers!
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
Originally posted by 5mn_Major View PostThat's what I said. Your rigid disbelief is in something that's not Christianity based on its universal definition or substantiated outcomes. This is why most Christians don't give you the time of day.Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
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Originally posted by 5mn_Major View PostGuys, this is really simple. Jesus is God. He corrected the OT as needed and set the record straight. His Word as God trumps the balance of the Bible.
"Christianity, like other religions, has adherents whose beliefs and biblical interpretations vary. Christianity regards the biblical canon, the Old Testament and the New Testament, as the inspired word of God. The traditional view of inspiration is that God worked through human authors so that what they produced was what God wished to communicate. The Greek word referring to inspiration in 2 Timothy 3:16 is theopneustos, which literally means "God-breathed"."
The Bible, OT and NT alike, is considered canon for Christians. If the Old Testament is what God wished to communicate, and God is infallible, why would it need later correction?
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...
As somebody once wrote: "I do not question the Word of God, only what man has made of it."CCT '77 & '78
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Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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