Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

[St. Clown]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

No I'm not. I'm saying outright that some Biblical literalists are indeed intelligent.

It's sort of like saying that some members of cults in general are indeed intelligent.

Some Mormons are very intelligent even if they take The Book of Mormon literally; or even if they believe that Joseph Smith really did find relics written in an ancient language that only he could interpret.

That's where we'll have to disagree. When someone tells me that they believe every word of the Bible without exception, and then my thoughts stray to Jonah and the Whale, it causes doubt to creep in on their overall fitness for making critical judgments. A person cannot live for three days within any animal, no matter the type of beast it may be.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

That's where we'll have to disagree. When someone tells me that they believe every word of the Bible without exception, and then my thoughts stray to Jonah and the Whale, it causes doubt to creep in on their overall fitness for making critical judgments. A person cannot live for three days within any animal, no matter the type of beast it may be.

not to mention trying to figure out how they reconcile all of the contradictions. I don't get the literalists.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I'm sure this is going to trigger a few posters here, but:



You could also apply this sticker to the Qur'an and the Torah, of course. And probably the Book of Mormon (though I haven't gotten that far yet).

The best religious people, are religious people who can laugh at jokes about their own faith. If you can't laugh at the idiosyncrasies of your own beliefs, then you're a hopelessly brainwashed stiff.

[joecct]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I prefer to think of a lot of the OT as allegorical. The NT more literal, with some "stretching of the facts".

But, taken as a whole, the Bible is without error. However some of the "facts" may be stretched.

For example, God created the world. However to explain to the people around 5,000 years ago the Big Bang would be impossible. But, you want to confer the all powerful Supreme Being, so you tell a story that God took 6 days to create all that you see. We now understand/believe that God set up the rules, supplied all the materials, and pushed the button. Then He rested.

In the NT, we get the hint that God is an infinite Being with Christ's quote of "Before Abraham was, I am."

Look, a lot of it is Faith. Either you believe or you don't. I'll find out a split second after I die if I was misinformed.

[St. Clown]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Look, a lot of it is Faith. Either you believe or you don't. I'll find out a split second after I die if I was misinformed.

Actually... you won't.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I prefer to think of a lot of the OT as allegorical. The NT more literal, with some "stretching of the facts".

But, taken as a whole, the Bible is without error. However some of the "facts" may be stretched.

Oh my, the doublespeak.

Look, a lot of it is Faith. Either you believe or you don't. I'll find out a split second after I die if I was misinformed.

Sorry, joe. This is the last defense of the, "OK, I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be smarter if you believed, just in case?" crowd.

Split second? Maybe if purgatory is for real. However, I thought the Church denied "the boiling oil of purgatory" and the unbaptized masses of "limbo" these days.*



*and don't try to pin that on Francis - IIRC, the denial of purgatory and limbo starts with Paul VI, and the Second Vatican Council you loathe so much.

[state of hockey]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I'm currently attending a Judaism class that is run by three different conservative synagogues. All three Rabbis have said "If you take this book (Torah (first five books of the bible) and Tanakh (the entire old testament)) literally, it is very dangerous."

It has been an extremely interesting course. Huge emphasis on interpreting the lesson or message that is trying to be conveyed in the text.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I'm currently attending a Judaism class that is run by three different conservative synagogues. All three Rabbis have said "If you take this book (Torah (first five books of the bible) and Tanakh (the entire old testament)) literally, it is very dangerous."

It has been an extremely interesting course. Huge emphasis on interpreting the lesson or message that is trying to be conveyed in the text.

Why is it that Jews are better at interpreting the OT than fundie, literalist Christians that cite it as justification for their hatred of certain groups?

Look, we all know The Bible (and the Qur'an, and all the other texts) can be boiled down to the Golden Rule, which in plain English says, "Don't be a #(%*#$*# arsehole". The rest, is merely advice for how to not be a #$(*#$(*# arsehole, and you should take what you feel is right, and leave the rest.

However, I fail to see why people need religion to affirm that.

[joecct]

Oh my, the doublespeak.





Sorry, joe. This is the last defense of the, "OK, I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be smarter if you believed, just in case?" crowd.

Split second? Maybe if purgatory is for real. However, I thought the Church denied "the boiling oil of purgatory" and the unbaptized masses of "limbo" these days.*



*and don't try to pin that on Francis - IIRC, the denial of purgatory and limbo starts with Paul VI, and the Second Vatican Council you loathe so much.

Limbo (for umbaptized souls) got revisited as a consequence of abortion.

Purgatory is still on the books, but maybe not in the pulpit.

[state of hockey]

Why is it that Jews are better at interpreting the OT than fundie, literalist Christians that cite it as justification for their hatred of certain group?

Well obviously not all of them are better at it, but the percentage of them that are is pretty high. I honestly think it comes from the Pharisees and then the Rabbinic interpretations starting long, long ago. They created what's called Midrash, a monstrous collection of different commentaries and interpretations of the books.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Why is it that Jews are better at interpreting the OT than fundie, literalist Christians that cite it as justification for their hatred of certain groups?

Look, we all know The Bible (and the Qur'an, and all the other texts) can be boiled down to the Golden Rule, which in plain English says, "Don't be a #(%*#$*# arsehole". The rest, is merely advice for how to not be a #$(*#$(*# arsehole, and you should take what you feel is right, and leave the rest.

However, I fail to see why people need religion to affirm that.

We had an intern who was a convert from Judaism. The way he explained it there is a whole lot of symbolism in the Bible that means something but is missed by modern Christian. I could listen to him all day.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I'll find out a split second after I die if I was misinformed.

You are immortal, joe. The instant after you die the world ceases from your perspective. You will literally live until the end of the universe. There is nothing to fear.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Why is it that Jews are better at interpreting the OT than fundie, literalist Christians that cite it as justification for their hatred of certain groups?

The super Orthodox Jews are as-sholes too. The folks in the settlements give AQ a run for jerk of the year.

The more literally you take religion, the more you've missed the whole point. Joseph Campbell knew more about religion than all the fundies who ever lived put together, and spent a lifetime explaining that simple message.

[FreshFish]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Sure, I'll concede that one can be very bright in a given subject or field of expertise, and still be a total rube in another. It explains a lot of conservative engineers I know.

The Biblical literalists we all read about are people like Kim Davis, the county clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples because it would violate her belief in the Biblical sanctity of marriage. Which she valued so highly, being divorced 3 times herself. Was she a competent clerk in other matters? Probably. It still didn't make her any less pigheaded though.

The very intelligent religious fundamentalists who really worry me are those radical Islamist fanatics who claim to take every word of The Koran literally and use that as justification for mass murder.

[FreshFish]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I fail to see why people need religion to affirm that.

It is my understanding that religion originally served as a method to enhance tribal identity. There are indications of that thought process in The Old Testament: when tribes went to war, the God of each tribe also went to war with the God of the other tribe, and the victory of one tribe in warfare also meant that their God was superior to the losing tribe's God.

sort of like Highlander, I guess....


anyway, the idea of going to a religious service on a regular routine basis also was a way to enhance bonds of tribal solidarity as well.