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2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

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  • 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

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    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

  • #2
    Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

    Originally posted by Kepler on the last thread
    I didn't say "a democracy," I said "democracy." I am well aware that the United States is a republic. I believe in small d democratic tendencies to fix our problems, you believe in anti-democratic measures which is kinda funny coming from a guy worried about the NWO.

    Also, you've got your Aristotle a little off. He says democracies are inherently unstable and they inevitably descend into anarchy, which is (after much destruction) ended by a tyrant -- a non-malicious term of art for someone who governs without being limited by the traditional rights and privileges of aristocracy. Aristotle and Plato were extremely keen to preserve the rights of the aristocracy, which in a world were the vast majority of citizens were barely above the level of wild beasts was probably a pretty good rule of thumb.

    But we no longer play by 18th century rules, and with universal educations and something at least approaching equal rights an informed, democratic electorate with universal suffrage is now appropriate. The Founders had the wisdom to design a constitutional system that allows us to adapt to changing circumstances, and so successive waves of popular reform have taken us farther and farther from the theo-feudal state that conservatives lay awake at night beating off to. It would bother Aristotle (and Hamilton) no end, but we've moved on, and the vast majority of us are better for it. The Haves are sad but don't cry for them. It's still always sweet to be a Have.
    Kepler, if you know anything about history, heck even the Aristotle that you referenced, you should know that the NWO is using "majority rule", i.e. democracy, to their advantage. Find some charismatic guy, perhaps with a government-fabricated "chip on the shoulder" or two (an unfounded prison sentence, maybe a different race or gender, etc.) to gain some sympathy, get him to loudly promise the world to a distraught mob, and then use him to push the agenda. There's a reason the Founding Fathers never fully trusted the crowd, and I'm sure they learned some lessons when the Articles of Confederation were in place, too.

    It doesn't matter what advances, "universal educations" or "equal rights" you have in place. Humans are imperfect, and the human mind, especially collective minds, is flawed, and can be very easily manipulated, and that is without regard to any Constitutionally protected classification when it comes to suffrage.

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    • #3
      Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
      Humans are imperfect, and the human mind, especially collective minds, is flawed, and can be very easily manipulated, and that is without regard to any Constitutionally protected classification when it comes to suffrage.
      Of course we are imperfect, but that is an argument for wider suffrage and more of us building a consensus. Openness and inclusiveness are the most effective safeguards against manipulation, because they allow adversaries to rise and challenge accepted dogma.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Of course we are imperfect, but that is an argument for wider suffrage and more of us building a consensus. Openness and inclusiveness are the most effective safeguards against manipulation, because they allow adversaries to rise and challenge accepted dogma.
        Like the dogma that the founding fathers were always right and every political question should come down to various interpretations of what they thought? (Hint, they weren't perfect and really *ed up some things like slavery)
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        • #5
          Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

          Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
          Like the dogma that the founding fathers were always right and every political question should come down to various interpretations of what they thought? (Hint, they weren't perfect and really *ed up some things like slavery)
          The great irony of which is the Founders themselves knew they were fallible (well, except for Adams), which is why they designed a system that can bend and stretch. Originalism is a good idea in that you should look at the debate at the time of ratification language to understand what it was intended for (spoiler: the second amendment had nothing to do with guns for hunting or personal safety), but it's asinine when attempting to set everything in theological concrete (and just a scam to distort constitutional law in one partisan direction anyway, as Scalia has shown many times).
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          • #6
            Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            The great irony of which is the Founders themselves knew they were fallible (well, except for Adams), which is why they designed a system that can bend and stretch. Originalism is a good idea in that you should look at the debate at the time of ratification language to understand what it was intended for (spoiler: the second amendment had nothing to do with guns for hunting or personal safety), but it's asinine when attempting to set everything in theological concrete (and just a scam to distort constitutional law in one partisan direction anyway, as Scalia has shown many times).
            Scalia's not the only one to "legislate from the bench" or be "partisan", hence why practically every decision these days comes down to 5-4 and at least one support/dissent has SOME political leaning.

            Ah yes, John Adams... who essentially wanted an elected king. At least assuming Hit Man's story on the subject was accurate, and I can't see why not.

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            • #7
              Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Of course we are imperfect, but that is an argument for wider suffrage and more of us building a consensus. Openness and inclusiveness are the most effective safeguards against manipulation, because they allow adversaries to rise and challenge accepted dogma.
              I've posted this quote here before--more than once. But it is so eloquent and so eternally important, it bears repeating:

              Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power, and want a certain result with all your heart, you naturally express your wishes in law, and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care wholeheartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises.

              But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas -- that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out.
              That, at any rate, is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year, if not every day, we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system, I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.


              Abrams v . United States (Justice Holmes dissenting).

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              • #8
                Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

                Subscribed because this thread smells of quackery.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                  ...practically every decision these days comes down to 5-4...
                  Pretty sure this is not even close to true. The 5-4 ones just get all the press.

                  Edit: Here you go. In 2014, only 10 cases (14% of 72 decisions) were 5-4, and only 4 of them broke on strictly ideological lines.

                  http://wtvr.com/2014/07/01/supreme-court-had-highest-percentage-of-unanimous-decisions-this-session/
                  Last edited by LynahFan; 01-14-2016, 10:16 AM.
                  If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                  • #10
                    Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

                    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                    Pretty sure this is not even close to true. The 5-4 ones just get all the press.

                    Edit: Here you go. In 2014, only 10 cases (14% of 72 decisions) were 5-4, and only 4 of them broke on strictly ideological lines.

                    http://wtvr.com/2014/07/01/supreme-c...-this-session/
                    That is what the NWO and Jade Helm WANT you to believe! #thetruthisoutthere #sheeple #whydoesanyoneactuallytalktoFrauddude
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                    • #11
                      Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      That is what the NWO and Jade Helm WANT you to believe! #thetruthisoutthere #sheeple #whydoesanyoneactuallytalktoFrauddude
                      He meant the real Supreme Court, which has been safely hidden in a bunker for decades. The one you see is made of solely of lizard people.

                      Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                      KDR

                      Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
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                      • #12
                        Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

                        It appears thoughts on our government mirror those of my hockey team. The president is too powerful, the 17th should be repealed to free the senate, the house is gerrymandered, the courts are political/rigged and the Constitution should be rewritten. The golden age of both the US government and the U of MN hockey program are over...shut 'em both down on the same day.
                        Go Gophers!

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                        • #13
                          Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

                          The obvious solution for both problems is more Canadians.
                          CCT '77 & '78
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                          • #14
                            Re: 2nd Term Part XI; Year 8, Part 1... Electioneering and Lame Ducking

                            Originally posted by joecct View Post
                            The obvious solution for both problems is more Canadians.
                            No Cruz hashtag?
                            If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                              No Cruz hashtag?
                              Only for twitter. And the may have indicated a humourous tweet.
                              CCT '77 & '78
                              4 kids
                              5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                              1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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