Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Maybe require all guns to be bright pink in color. Since offing the owners will be frowned upon.

Did you say ... pink?
https://www.google.com/search?q=pink...cWAaAQ_AUIBygC

I know a young lady that owns one of those (Walther P22 in pink). I would recommend you not try to "off" her. I've seen her shoot at the range.

[Kepler]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Isn't part of the issue that many of the mentally deficient that would've been institutionalized in by-gone days have been "streeted" by public policies aimed to give them their freedom (and ability to not be able to sustain themselves).

I'd say the policies were mostly born of states cutting budgets. That's what happened during the 1980s, anyway, when it seemed like the paradigm shift occurred. There was a "Cuckoos Nest" Effect to some extent, as patients gained rights and confinement gave way to temporary holds, but as usual the villain of the piece was the tax revolt. People became convinced in the 80s that they could have all their goodies but not pay for them, and since this is patent nonsense, all the goodies that didn't have well-heeled sponsors got lopped off. Crazy care was one of the first to go. Elections have consequences.

[SJHovey]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Isn't part of the issue that many of the mentally deficient that would've been institutionalized in by-gone days have been "streeted" by public policies aimed to give them their freedom (and ability to not be able to sustain themselves).

I can only speak for ND, but closure of the Grafton State School and San Haven State Hospital years ago put many folks that couldn't cope with living in greater society (much less tasks of daily life) back into communities. Were those facilities perfect, or even good? Looking objectively, not many were; however, in comparison to not having shelter and living under a bridge with no food, they weren't bad. Our mistake was not fixing the infrastructure systems we had.

I was in college in North Dakota when the ARC lawsuit essentially sounded the death knell for Grafton and San Haven. Probably one of the more controversial periods in North Dakota history, largely forgotten now.

We have a horrible problem in this country with respect to those individuals whose mental handicap or disability makes it more difficult, or impossible, for them to function as a "normal" (whatever that is) adult in society.

The first problem is the degrees of mental disability. Not everyone is the same. Some can't function at all, and some function quite highly. The problem we have is trying to use a one size fits all approach.

I don't think institutionalization is necessarily the way to go, but it's also apparent that the expectation that all mentally disabled individuals can simply be assimilated into standard society isn't the right answer either.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

I'd say the policies were mostly born of states cutting budgets. That's what happened during the 1980s, anyway, when it seemed like the paradigm shift occurred. There was a "Cuckoos Nest" Effect to some extent, as patients gained rights and confinement gave way to temporary holds, but as usual the villain of the piece was the tax revolt. People became convinced in the 80s that they could have all their goodies but not pay for them, and since this is patent nonsense, all the goodies that didn't have well-heeled sponsors got lopped off. Crazy care was one of the first to go. Elections have consequences.

And thus we learned the hard way that centralized "crazy care" (not my phrase, quoting Kep) is far more efficient and cost effective than the current mess alternative.

[joecct]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

In "All Quiet on the Western Front" one of the soldiers in the hospital had received a knock on the head (concussion) from an artillery shell and head a certificate that if he went off the handle, it was OK.

It was called a "Shooting License".

[Kepler]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

And thus we learned the hard way that centralized "crazy care" (not my phrase, quoting Kep) is far more efficient and cost effective than the current mess alternative.

We also learned that unfunded mandates don't work, and that's something that both parties have been guilty of.

Much of this goes back to the problem of a spineless Congress that to this day refuses to tell people that their fantasyland dreams of permanently low taxes without budget deficits (and concomitant cuts of basic services to the most needy) are impossible. Talk about voting to give people "free stuff" -- that has been the permanent condition of our government since the Reagan Fallacy, and Members still won't own up to it.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

We also learned that unfunded mandates don't work, and that's something that both parties have been guilty of.

Much of this goes back to the problem of a spineless Congress that to this day refuses to tell people that their fantasyland dreams of permanently low taxes without budget deficits (and concomitant cuts of basic services to the most needy) are impossible. Talk about voting to give people "free stuff" -- that has been the permanent condition of our government since the Reagan Fallacy, and Members still won't own up to it.

Yeah, and isn't it funny how they convinced the American People that the perpetual visa card existed for themselves too but that crashed fast while the Government's version lumbers on and on.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

... while the Government's version lumbers on and on.

And it will continue to lumber until it is too painful to continue. I fear that point is beyond the point of no return.

[Kepler]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

And it will continue to lumber until it is too painful to continue. I fear that point is beyond the point of no return.

There's always a return from the edge; the question is always, how painful will it be?

I think that the economy grows fast enough that if we restore pre-Reagan tax rates on individuals and corporations, we'll start to winnow down the deficits, and if we fully fund the programs and priorities that originally built the great American middle class, we'll soon have erased the deficits entirely and then have time to start hewing down the debt.

We basically need to repeal the last 40 years of failed fiscal policy.

But doing that means waking up to some really terrible truths about those years and all the folks who lied to us (from both parties), and unifying the bottom 99%, and I don't think our social schisms are going to allow that just yet.

(Which is, after all, why those schisms are continually deliberately inflamed. "Divide and rule".)

[5mn_Major]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Will these moves* really make a difference?
When was the last time a criminal used a "mentally deficient" person's ID to purchase a weapon? And was that weapon used to commit a crime?

These "actions" sound wonderful and make for great sound bites, but will they make an iota of difference?

Think I've said this before...but if there's a problem with a two part solution, fix em both. If you can't hold a job because you don't have a car to get you there and you don't have an alarm clock to wake you up...you don't worry about buying just one.

We have already seen a high correlation between states with more gun control and lower gun related death rates. Regarding the other solution, mental illness...conservatives better be ready to pay a lot of tax money for that one. And we know they like to do that.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

How will this stop Theo the Thug from obtaining an illegal gun?

How criminals get guns

An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Goodbye to the USA. Hello, eternal slavery.

[joecct]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

How criminals get guns

This is interesting - homicides by firearms have gone down from 2010 - 2014.

[Kepler]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

Stay classy, NRA.

[joecct]

Re: Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

This is also interesting. Apparently, if I read this correctly, the WH announced a whole lot of nothing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d-be-unlawful/