Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

[MichVandal]

Policy lags way behind the people on gun control for a bunch of reasons: rural over-representation in the EC and Senate, spectacularly successful gerrymandering by the GOP, bribery by the death merchants, and the refusal by the Packed Court to do anything about it. Those are artificial circumstances that defy democratic gravity. The country becomes ever more urbanized and more educated, the backwaters slowly but surely dry up as kids leave for a better life and are absorbed into modern society.

Twenty years ago there were large numbers of liberals who still parroted the line of the NRA. I don't know any who continue to. That is a sea change. Like many other things, we need government policy to catch up with the humans beings who live in this country. We will get there if we can keep our democracy.

Add to that, there has been an almost prohibition on research to gun violence for many years. So anyone who wants to research the effect of any policy can't get backing from anyone who can provide significant funding to pay for it.

Like my example of restricting magazine size and firing rate- that can't even be looked into on it's theoretical effectiveness.

Whereas the firearm industry can do whatever they want to fund research for their proposals- say they want teachers to all be armed- they can go and do that to see the result. And the previous NRA that did want gun control has been totally overwhelmed by the arms industry NRA- otherwise known as profit over everything.

So anyone wanting control is really starting on the back foot.

[Kepler]

Many years ago I attended a community leadership conference, and this guy talked about how problems are solved and addressed. I wish I could remember his name, but I can't.

He said that people get together and agree, "we need to solve the housing crisis" or "we need to solve the hunger crisis" or "we need to eliminate racism" or "we need to solve the gun crisis." Everyone agrees that these are all wonderful ideals, and it would be great if you could do that, but you can't. They are simply too large and too complex, and when people start working on trying to "solve" these problems, they simply give up.

So then, the common idea is, why don't we just have "the government" solve it. Here's why, because it can't either.

According to the speaker, here is what you do. You start small. You start in your own house, you start with your neighbor, you start with your own block. You take steps to solve the problem there. The effect is infinitesimal, but if enough people follow your lead, it's no longer infinitesimal.

So, with the gun problem for example, here is what you can do. Get a group of your friends or neighbors and form an organization. Raise some money. Use the money to go out and buy gun trigger locks. They're maybe $10 a pop. Walk your neighborhood with your friends, and ask homeowners if they have any firearms, and tell them that if they do, you're offering to give them a free trigger lock if they'll put it on their guns and keep the key somewhere safe. Do stuff you can actually do. Don't think about "solving the gun crisis." Think about doing something that has some small chance of making a difference.

My worldview is this. Every morning when I get up I have a chance to make my world just a little bit better. You go to work. Do a good job. You pick up an empty McDonald's bag and throw it in the garbage, or grab an empty plastic water bottle and throw it in recycling. Are you solving the climate crisis? Nope, but you did one tiny little thing to help, and that's what you can do.

You can do all these things while also using government as the will of the people. You need both grassroots and government action. Pursuing either in the absence of the either leads either to stagnation or dictatorship and doesn't change anything.

If the Right could get over its fear of / fury at The Gubmint, they would see rationally that it is simply the integral of all those infinitesimal changes you are talking about. Smog is not curtailed without the EPA. Slaves are not freed without the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment. Women don't have reproductive agency without Roe and the ERA.

You are absolutely right about the need for individuals tending their own garden. But government is just another tool we use as individuals to improve our world, and as a free democratic people we are absolutely entitled to use it, and we will. And it works.

[Kepler]

Policy lags way behind the people on gun control for a bunch of reasons: rural over-representation in the EC and Senate, spectacularly successful gerrymandering by the GOP, bribery by the death merchants, and the refusal by the Packed Court to do anything about it. Those are artificial circumstances that defy democratic gravity. The country becomes ever more urbanized and more educated, the backwaters slowly but surely dry up as kids leave for a better life and are absorbed into modern society.

Twenty years ago there were large numbers of liberals who still parroted the line of the NRA. I don't know any who continue to. That is a sea change. Like many other things, we need government policy to catch up with the humans beings who live in this country. We will get there if we can keep our democracy.

[SJHovey]

It might take 30 years but this will be solved. I truly believe that.

Many years ago I attended a community leadership conference, and this guy talked about how problems are solved and addressed. I wish I could remember his name, but I can't.

He said that people get together and agree, "we need to solve the housing crisis" or "we need to solve the hunger crisis" or "we need to eliminate racism" or "we need to solve the gun crisis." Everyone agrees that these are all wonderful ideals, and it would be great if you could do that, but you can't. They are simply too large and too complex, and when people start working on trying to "solve" these problems, they simply give up.

So then, the common idea is, why don't we just have "the government" solve it. Here's why, because it can't either.

According to the speaker, here is what you do. You start small. You start in your own house, you start with your neighbor, you start with your own block. You take steps to solve the problem there. The effect is infinitesimal, but if enough people follow your lead, it's no longer infinitesimal.

So, with the gun problem for example, here is what you can do. Get a group of your friends or neighbors and form an organization. Raise some money. Use the money to go out and buy gun trigger locks. They're maybe $10 a pop. Walk your neighborhood with your friends, and ask homeowners if they have any firearms, and tell them that if they do, you're offering to give them a free trigger lock if they'll put it on their guns and keep the key somewhere safe. Do stuff you can actually do. Don't think about "solving the gun crisis." Think about doing something that has some small chance of making a difference.

My worldview is this. Every morning when I get up I have a chance to make my world just a little bit better. You go to work. Do a good job. You pick up an empty McDonald's bag and throw it in the garbage, or grab an empty plastic water bottle and throw it in recycling. Are you solving the climate crisis? Nope, but you did one tiny little thing to help, and that's what you can do.

[St. Clown]

As of yesterday, the year was 46 days old. Mass shootings in the USA: 70.

[MichVandal]

Stop taking the bait. Please.

Back to topic.

https://twitter.com/EricLloyd/status...05823506849793

10k people shown up at the MSU vigil tonight. It might take 30 years but this will be solved. I truly believe that.

There was a vigil on UM's campus last night- but I'm not sure of the details- we were hoping to live stream it, but the link didn't work. Michigan is also going to honor State by putting green hearts with a Sparty in the middle on helmets this weekend for hockey and softball. I'm sure they were going to do something for BB, but I'd bet the game this weekend will be postponed for a while. Too soon for MSU- although a distraction would be good. My wife saw Izzo at the MSU vigil last night- so I'm sure he's not ready to move on yet, too.

We were also talking last night about the heroic call from the person who saw the person outside their home. And by heroic, I mean that I would be pretty terrified that I saw a person who allegedly just killed 3 people and shot 5 others in front of my home.

[Bronco]

Stop taking the bait. Please.

Back to topic.

https://twitter.com/EricLloyd/status...05823506849793

10k people shown up at the MSU vigil tonight. It might take 30 years but this will be solved. I truly believe that.

[MichVandal]

Last year in Maine there were 30 homicides with around half by firearm and over 500 fentanyl deaths. Which one do you hear more about? And the scale of destruction isn’t even close.

You know what else was more deadly than firearms? Cars. But that's also why there are so, so, so, so many safety and environmental laws around cars.

But you are pretty dumb to not understand the difference between a firearm and a car.

Especially that the guns number one design guide is that it kills the person who it's used against.

That's not what cars are for, that's not what fentanyl is for.

And I would suggest to you to look up car and fentanyl deaths that were intentional by someone else.

You know what else you don't hear about- mass murders committed by drivers.

Guns only purpose is to kill what they are shooting at. That's it. Other than harvesting meat, they have very little redeeming value to society.

So your silly defense of guns like that just perpetuates the proliferation of guns to a point that it's never going to stop. So on behalf of all of the dead and their families- thank you, drew. Your resistance to control will ensure that the future of our country will always live in fear.

Wasn't a recent post that you complained about the security measures that schools have to do? Seriously? Oh, yea, you clearly want all of these intentional deaths to happen. Good job.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Repeal God too for that matter...

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

But we’re the only country where god specified he wanted us all to have guns. We’re different

[WeAreNDHockey]

Mass shootings, and more of them, are what a lot of people in this country want. That has to be it, right? Why else would it keep happening?

There is a surefire way to slow them down, and it's pretty simple actually. Simple to conceive, not necessarily to carry out. I'm not saying it is ever going to happen (it isn't ever going to happen actually) because too many people have been brainwashed into thinking idiotic things about their firearms. At the end of the day the only reason it happens here and no where else in the world, is guns are too ridiculously easy to get and to carry. It's not complicated. Make them difficult to get and virtually impossible to carry legally outside of your own property (or on someone elses who gave you permission, like to hunt, with like, a regular gun that is made for hunting ducks or quail or deer, not for hunting dozens of humans).

Anyone who thinks its going to change in our lifetime, well I am glad you are an optimistic person, but boy are you naive. The first time we had a mass shooting come on the heels of another mass shooting, we should have done what needed to be done. That we didn't told me we never will. And it also told me mass shootings, and more of them, are what a lot of people in this country want. Because again, if that wasn't what they wanted, why does it keep happening?

Repeal (the second amendment), ban (almost all guns and certainly all that can fire rapidly or more than a few rounds without stopping to re-load) and confiscate (all those that are banned). That's what I'd do.

[aparch]

Stories like this remind me America will throw half-measures at most of its ailments.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mli...outputType=amp

Where does the armor plating go if the backpack is clear?

[MissThundercat]

Stories like this remind me America will throw half-measures at most of its ailments.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mli...outputType=amp

[Handyman]

Last year in Maine there were 30 homicides with around half by firearm and over 500 fentanyl deaths. Which one do you hear more about? And the scale of destruction isn’t even close.

Does anyone ever tell you you have good thoughts and ideas?

[Slap Shot]

"No law is 100% effective therefore there should be no laws!!"
-some dumbass