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Gun Control 1: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

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  • Kepler
    replied
    Children killed by gun violence, US, since 2014.

    25 incidents per page (there may be several children killed in an incident)

    80 pages.


    Last edited by Kepler; 02-18-2023, 09:11 AM.

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  • Kepler
    replied
    Originally posted by MichVandal View Post
    So we missed a mall shooting yesterday in Texas... geezus.
    And, meanwhile, in Mississippi.

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  • Slap Shot
    replied
    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    Yeah…..no.

    You can **** right off with that so long as “conservatives” are wielding government power at every level to advance every plank of their culture war BS in spite of - no, because of - everyone they hurt and to steal everything not nailed down so they can transfer the wealth to the 1%. You’d love it if liberals focused on community grassroots feel-good initiatives while you and your ilk are behind the scenes hollowing out the nation to the point of collapse. No skin off your nose - rich parasites can always go find another host to bleed.

    So you’ll excuse me if, as ever, when a conservative starts with, “What liberals ought to do is….” all I hear is, “What would be really convenient for conservatives is if liberals would….”

    We, the people, are coming for your guns, and we’re going to use the power of the government to do it. Get used to the idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • dxmnkd316
    replied
    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    Yeah…..no.

    You can **** right off with that so long as “conservatives” are wielding government power at every level to advance every plank of their culture war BS in spite of - no, because of - everyone they hurt and to steal everything not nailed down so they can transfer the wealth to the 1%. You’d love it if liberals focused on community grassroots feel-good initiatives while you and your ilk are behind the scenes hollowing out the nation to the point of collapse. No skin off your nose - rich parasites can always go find another host to bleed.

    So you’ll excuse me if, as ever, when a conservative starts with, “What liberals ought to do is….” all I hear is, “What would be really convenient for conservatives is if liberals would….”

    We, the people, are coming for your guns, and we’re going to use the power of the government to do it. Get used to the idea.
    "They're not my guns." Or something to that effect.

    Leave a comment:


  • French Rage
    replied
    Originally posted by unofan View Post

    More to the point, California is home to one in 8 Americans. I know per capita stats are hard, but I think the south is more than holding its own in the mass shooting department.
    He's going to point out that total firearm mortality death rate isn't the same as mass shooting death rate. Which is true. It may be that CA is not any better than other states per capita on mass shootings, whereas the previous map shows it is better overall. So you can tell the people who died of firearms in the other states in good ole private non-mass-shooting deaths to be grateful for that. Well, I mean you could if they weren't dead.

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  • unofan
    replied
    Originally posted by French Rage View Post

    Picking limited data with a very specific time frame is always the best way to prove a point!!
    More to the point, California is home to one in 8 Americans. I know per capita stats are hard, but I think the south is more than holding its own in the mass shooting department.

    Leave a comment:


  • MissThundercat
    replied
    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    Yeah…..no.

    You can **** right off with that so long as “conservatives” are wielding government power at every level to advance every plank of their culture war BS in spite of - no, because of - everyone they hurt and to steal everything not nailed down so they can transfer the wealth to the 1%. You’d love it if liberals focused on community grassroots feel-good initiatives while you and your ilk are behind the scenes hollowing out the nation to the point of collapse. No skin off your nose - rich parasites can always go find another host to bleed.

    So you’ll excuse me if, as ever, when a conservative starts with, “What liberals ought to do is….” all I hear is, “What would be really convenient for conservatives is if liberals would….”

    We, the people, are coming for your guns, and we’re going to use the power of the government to do it. Get used to the idea.
    As a target of right wing culture BS:

    Definitely looking into owning a gun and self-defense training because asking the Proud Boys to kindly stop terrorizing drag shows isn't going to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • French Rage
    replied
    Originally posted by Drew S. View Post

    Few free to refute it. The best you could do in your previous post was a graph that was completely irrelevant to the point I made.
    Firearm mortality rates have nothing to do with effectiveness of gun control laws, got it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Drew S.
    replied
    Originally posted by French Rage View Post

    Picking limited data with a very specific time frame is always the best way to prove a point!!
    Few free to refute it. The best you could do in your previous post was a graph that was completely irrelevant to the point I made.

    Leave a comment:


  • French Rage
    replied
    Originally posted by Drew S. View Post

    Perhaps you missed it but there were two high profile mass shootings in CA in approximately the last month. There have been plenty of others as well.
    Picking limited data with a very specific time frame is always the best way to prove a point!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Drew S.
    replied
    Originally posted by French Rage View Post
    Is Drew ever going to back up his claim with numbers or is it going to be like his Grant Wahl claim that goes nowhere?
    Perhaps you missed it but there were two high profile mass shootings in CA in approximately the last month. There have been plenty of others as well.

    I don’t even remember what my Grant Wahl claim was other than him dying in incredibly dodgy circumstances. If he did truly die of natural causes it is one of the most remarkable coincidences ever.

    Leave a comment:


  • French Rage
    replied
    Is Drew ever going to back up his claim with numbers or is it going to be like his Grant Wahl claim that goes nowhere?

    Leave a comment:


  • SJHovey
    replied
    Originally posted by psych View Post

    That's rich, coming from the guy who commonly reminds us that the backslapping coming from people who think they've accomplished something, even if it's only infinitesimal in nature, is abhorrent and hypocritical behavior. Like when you mocked California gun laws a couple years ago, in a strangely similar manner to Drew, after an inevitable shooting happened in California, in what I can only guess was an apparent effort to invalidate California's stricter gun laws.
    Look, while the "Be the change you want to see in the world" shtick is noble, and I hope more people follow my lead of never owning a gun, nor ever even shooting one, government is often utilized effectively to accomplish problems quicker than the grassroots, be the change you want to see method. There can be, and often is, both things in play when progress is made. California's gun laws are working. So are Massachusetts'. As you've noted before in previous posts, you don't see much of a difference between California's and Louisiana's per capita gun deaths, but the difference in the two states are hundreds of lives saved, which, while infinitesimal compared to the thousands of gun deaths the United States has the pleasure of experiencing every year, is still a difference in the right direction.
    I don't mock people who actually do something, even if it's just the tiniest thing. What I mock are politicians who pass laws that aren't going to have any meaningful impact, and then stand around clapping themselves on the back like they did something to solve the problem.

    You watch. The D's control the governor's office and the legislature here in Minnesota this session. They're going for a pretty liberal agenda. What are they going to do for guns? It'll be something like stronger "red flag" laws and background checks.

    I guaranty you that at some point during or after this session, the D leadership will hold a press conference at which point in time they will congratulate themselves on taking real and meaningful steps to eliminate the gun crisis here in Minnesota.

    Will that be a claim with which you agree?

    If they want to do something, I have an idea. Pass a law that makes it a felony, with mandatory prison time, for carrying a gun in a car where the gun is not secured with both a trigger lock and contained within a locked case.

    Make it a felony if you own a gun and you don't keep it locked in a secure fashion and a minor comes into possession of it and commits a crime. Or, if you really want to have fun, how about this. Pass a law that says that if you are carrying a gun, it is automatically considered self defense if someone else shoots you.


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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post

    Many years ago I attended a community leadership conference, and this guy talked about how problems are solved and addressed. I wish I could remember his name, but I can't.

    He said that people get together and agree, "we need to solve the housing crisis" or "we need to solve the hunger crisis" or "we need to eliminate racism" or "we need to solve the gun crisis." Everyone agrees that these are all wonderful ideals, and it would be great if you could do that, but you can't. They are simply too large and too complex, and when people start working on trying to "solve" these problems, they simply give up.

    So then, the common idea is, why don't we just have "the government" solve it. Here's why, because it can't either.

    According to the speaker, here is what you do. You start small. You start in your own house, you start with your neighbor, you start with your own block. You take steps to solve the problem there. The effect is infinitesimal, but if enough people follow your lead, it's no longer infinitesimal.

    So, with the gun problem for example, here is what you can do. Get a group of your friends or neighbors and form an organization. Raise some money. Use the money to go out and buy gun trigger locks. They're maybe $10 a pop. Walk your neighborhood with your friends, and ask homeowners if they have any firearms, and tell them that if they do, you're offering to give them a free trigger lock if they'll put it on their guns and keep the key somewhere safe. Do stuff you can actually do. Don't think about "solving the gun crisis." Think about doing something that has some small chance of making a difference.

    My worldview is this. Every morning when I get up I have a chance to make my world just a little bit better. You go to work. Do a good job. You pick up an empty McDonald's bag and throw it in the garbage, or grab an empty plastic water bottle and throw it in recycling. Are you solving the climate crisis? Nope, but you did one tiny little thing to help, and that's what you can do.
    Yeah…..no.

    You can **** right off with that so long as “conservatives” are wielding government power at every level to advance every plank of their culture war BS in spite of - no, because of - everyone they hurt and to steal everything not nailed down so they can transfer the wealth to the 1%. You’d love it if liberals focused on community grassroots feel-good initiatives while you and your ilk are behind the scenes hollowing out the nation to the point of collapse. No skin off your nose - rich parasites can always go find another host to bleed.

    So you’ll excuse me if, as ever, when a conservative starts with, “What liberals ought to do is….” all I hear is, “What would be really convenient for conservatives is if liberals would….”

    We, the people, are coming for your guns, and we’re going to use the power of the government to do it. Get used to the idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • psych
    replied
    Originally posted by Kepler View Post

    You can do all these things while also using government as the will of the people. You need both grassroots and government action. Pursuing either in the absence of the either leads either to stagnation or dictatorship and doesn't change anything.

    If the Right could get over its fear of / fury at The Gubmint, they would see rationally that it is simply the integral of all those infinitesimal changes you are talking about. Smog is not curtailed without the EPA. Slaves are not freed without the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment. Women don't have reproductive agency without Roe and the ERA.

    You are absolutely right about the need for individuals tending their own garden. But government is just another tool we use as individuals to improve our world, and as a free democratic people we are absolutely entitled to use it, and we will. And it works.
    If I had seen this post before my post, I would have deleted it. Mine is redundant.

    Leave a comment:

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