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Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

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  • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Another good consequence of low oil prices: the Saudis and Kuwaitis have taken it in the shorts.
    Good. I hate considering religious police states as "allies".

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    • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      The vast majority of people living in dire poverty, and we didn't "need" an income tax until they had the vote and newspapers that espoused their views?

      What an incredible coincidence!
      And yet who does the income tax target? Those you're trying to protect. The wealthy CEOs receive their "pay" in stock options and other not-yet-taxable instruments.

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      • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
        And yet who does the income tax target? Those you're trying to protect. The wealthy CEOs receive their "pay" in stock options and other not-yet-taxable instruments.
        Oddly enough, that practice went into overdrive when Pres. Clinton signed into law a pay ceiling for CEOs, limiting how much cash they could be paid. Had he not done that, they would still receive more cash than stock, and the government would receive slightly more aggregated tax income.
        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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        • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
          Oddly enough, that practice went into overdrive when Pres. Clinton signed into law a pay ceiling for CEOs, limiting how much cash they could be paid. Had he not done that, they would still receive more cash than stock, and the government would receive slightly more aggregated tax income.
          Reminds me a bit of FDR.

          Is that law even still on the books, BTW? Sort of like how Dodd-Frank was amended so Congress could still do insider trading?

          Also, I wonder how many of these CEOs have "charities", similar to the Clinton Foundation, from which they take salary?

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          • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

            Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
            Oddly enough, that practice went into overdrive when Pres. Clinton signed into law a pay ceiling for CEOs, limiting how much cash they could be paid. Had he not done that, they would still receive more cash than stock, and the government would receive slightly more aggregated tax income.
            Yep, and we've been regretting it ever since as it incentifies CEOs to build up the shareprice and cash out, and the hell with the future.

            Far better for options to be on a long time scale -- no cash out for, say, 25 years. Make the CEO build a company that will last.
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            • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Yep, and we've been regretting it ever since as it incentifies CEOs to build up the shareprice and cash out, and the hell with the future.

              Far better for options to be on a long time scale -- no cash out for, say, 25 years. Make the CEO build a company that will last.
              Not to mention the stock price jumps that come with merger announcements...

              But I'm not sure the options would necessarily help. Take a look at what Mark Cuban did when Yahoo bought Broadcast.com... lots of puts to protect his money.

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              • Originally posted by unofan View Post
                If you think that the standard of living in 19th century America was anywhere close to today's, I've got a bridge to sell you.
                2017 is better than 1917 which was better than 1817 which was better than 1717, etc. Unless there's a plague, a collapse of civilization or a global catastrophe the standard of living will get better
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                • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                  Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  2017 is better than 1917 which was better than 1817 which was better than 1717, etc. Unless there's a plague, a collapse of civilization or a global catastrophe the standard of living will get better
                  Actually, fallout from the Black Plague is what created the middle class in the first place. Labor became a premium, and the lords had little choice but to increase the pay of highly skilled serfs that eventually became the merchant class.
                  "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                  "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                  "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                  Comment


                  • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                    Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                    Actually, fallout from the Black Plague is what created the middle class in the first place. Labor became a premium, and the lords had little choice but to increase the pay of highly skilled serfs that eventually became the merchant class.
                    Not really a middle class, more of a first working class, as distinct from serfs who were essentially slaves.

                    The Middle Class was created when the Ruling Class figured out it needed healthy, educated and numerous citizens for industrialization and especially for industrialized warfare. That fueled the workers rights movements through the 19th century and then the populist movements, and finally the blossoming of the Middle Class in the 20th century.

                    Now that industrial labor has been superseded out by robotics, the Ruling Class no longer needs us, so we are gradually being reduced back to serfdom.

                    The only way anyone ever took power from the Ruling Class was coercion: either by the gun or because it was also in the cold equations of their economic necessity. The former is inherently stable, so the simplest and most effective method has always been the latter. But the problem with the latter is times change, and the fist is always there waiting to strike.

                    What conservatives have done for the last fifty years, some knowingly, many as dupes, is removed the chains we had briefly put on that fist, and removed our shields. They loathe democratic government because it protects everyone equally. They long for the freedom of wolves in the fold. That, for them, is "fairness."
                    Last edited by Kepler; 01-19-2017, 11:58 AM.
                    Cornell University
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                    • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                      Great growth you put out there, Obummer. I'm sure you're going to point the finger or resort to your fake news whine... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017...te-working-on/

                      Comment


                      • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        Great growth you put out there, Obummer. I'm sure you're going to point the finger or resort to your fake news whine... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017...te-working-on/
                        He's the worst? Really? Anyone look at GW's numbers after the crash?

                        Another idiot article written by an idiot.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                        • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                          Cries fake news, cites one of the least objective sites out there.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                            Mnuchin said he doesn't support returning to Glass-Steagall but said he supports a "21st century GS"

                            I'm interested what this means and what he proposes.
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                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                            • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                              Mnuchin said he doesn't support returning to Glass-Steagall but said he supports a "21st century GS"

                              I'm interested what this means and what he proposes.
                              I'd be curious too but invariable what happens is there ends up being no enforcement dollars in the budget and the loopholes are exploited and no one goes to jail.
                              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

                                Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                                Mnuchin said he doesn't support returning to Glass-Steagall but said he supports a "21st century GS"

                                I'm interested what this means and what he proposes.
                                The man comes from Goldman Sachs, an institution that's intertwined with everything that Glass-Steagall forbade. Supporting GS would be to tear that company apart, create a lot of expenses in the process, and create what many would view as simple accounting trickery. Who will be the owners of the new companies if you split apart the banks? Well, it would be the people who own stock in the current banks that get split. It's the same net effect in ownership, only now you're paying the salaries of multiple boards, executive teams, etc. He would make some sort of economies of scale argument against the split.
                                "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                                "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                                "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                                Comment

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