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  • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    My response to Handy's freakout about Carson's abortion statement was to point out that if we were on the nine month end of the pregnancy continuum, a good majority of the public would probably agree with Carson that a woman attempting to hold dominion over the life or death of the about to be born child would be about as bad as what a slaveowner was doing.
    The problem with this is that nobody takes the nine month position, so at best Carson is deliberately using a ridiculous strawman to cover the fact that most people do not in fact support his 0th second end of the continuum. He is the extremist in the debate, but he attempts to paint the other side as holding a view which nobody in fact does. So either we give him the full benefit of the doubt with your interpretation of his remarks, in which case he's being dishonest and manipulative, or we don't, in which case he's a loon.

    His many other nutty statements suggest that somewhere along the line he bought a one-way ticket on the crazy train, whether or not the butterfly nets should be deployed for this particular rant.
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    • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      Most abortion opponents aren't running for the job of Leader of the Free World, one of the requirements of which is being able to act and talk like a statesman rather than your average sports talk knucklehead.

      But you keep spinning it as though comparing abortion to slavery is ever an ok analogy for someone running for office.
      Keep dreaming the dream, but I think the "statesman" standard went out the door when these clowns start doing skits on SNL.
      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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      • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

        Originally posted by unofan View Post
        Most abortion opponents aren't running for the job of Leader of the Free World, one of the requirements of which is being able to act and talk like a statesman rather than your average sports talk knucklehead.

        But you keep spinning it as though comparing abortion to slavery is ever an ok analogy for someone running for office.
        He's a surgeon and plenty capable. But he has to speak in a language his audience will understand. Just another example of the moronic tail that is waving that dog.

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        • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          The problem with this is that nobody takes the nine month position, so at best Carson is deliberately using a ridiculous strawman to cover the fact that most people do not in fact support his 0th second end of the continuum. He is the extremist in the debate, but he attempts to paint the other side as holding a view which nobody in fact does. So either we give him the full benefit of the doubt with your interpretation of his remarks, in which case he's being dishonest and manipulative, or we don't, in which case he's a loon.

          His many other nutty statements suggest that somewhere along the line he bought a one-way ticket on the crazy train, whether or not the butterfly nets should be after him for this particular rant.
          Nobody takes the nine month position, because our response would be Carson's response. What, you think you own this kid?

          Again, my point is that Carson takes the slaveowner position for the entire nine months. The rest of us just for the last three. The only difference between the two is the definition of a person.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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          • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

            Originally posted by unofan View Post
            Good, another excellent example.

            The push to revise history courses continues, designed to give a "warts and all" look at the U.S. Carson and others are mad. I get it. Personally, I like the accurate report of history, but I hear what they are saying.

            So, Carson comments that basically these revisions are so extreme that someone taking the course will so dislike America they'd be tempted to join ISIS. A dramatic statement indeed.

            What if he'd have just said, these revisions are so extreme we're going to cause our kids to dislike our country? So, he's still "crazy"? Isn't he entitled to that opinion? Isn't there a chance he may be right, at least with respect to some kids? Couldn't he be right that some students will leave the class totally disillusioned about the U.S.? Does he have a right to speak out on that, and is someone crazy for arguing that? I mean really, do we need any more disillusioned people than we already have posting in the political threads of this board?

            Rather than saying these students will hate our country and move to Canada, he said they'll hate our country and join ISIS. Meh.
            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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            • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
              Good, another excellent example.

              The push to revise history courses continues, designed to give a "warts and all" look at the U.S. Carson and others are mad. I get it. Personally, I like the accurate report of history, but I hear what they are saying.

              So, Carson comments that basically these revisions are so extreme that someone taking the course will so dislike America they'd be tempted to join ISIS. A dramatic statement indeed.

              What if he'd have just said, these revisions are so extreme we're going to cause our kids to dislike our country? So, he's still "crazy"? Isn't he entitled to that opinion? Isn't there a chance he may be right, at least with respect to some kids? Couldn't he be right that some students will leave the class totally disillusioned about the U.S.? Does he have a right to speak out on that, and is someone crazy for arguing that? I mean really, do we need any more disillusioned people than we already have posting in the political threads of this board?

              Rather than saying these students will hate our country and move to Canada, he said they'll hate our country and join ISIS. Meh.


              If you want a job as his press secretary, I don't think anyone here can help you. But you are doing an impressive job attempting to spin his asshattery, I'll give you that.

              Flaggy and the sovereign citizen brigade generally also have some sort of legitimate point being made if you can find it under their 10 levels of derp. That doesn't mean they aren't still crazy, hence the ten levels of derp.

              Carson never makes the rational point; he always goes straight to 11. Probably because it only helps him with the GOP primary voters, but possibly because he's a true believer in his own craziness. The former is an indictment of them as much as him, while the latter should scare anyone who's thinking of putting him in the White House.
              Last edited by unofan; 10-26-2015, 05:21 PM.

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              • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                Originally posted by unofan View Post


                If you want a job as his press secretary, I don't think anyone here can help you. But you are doing an impressive job attempting to spin his asshattery, I'll give you that.
                Isn't that what he said? These revisions have gone so far we're just going to create a bunch of students who hate our country?
                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                  Originally posted by burd View Post
                  He said that about APUSH classes?
                  ****, I actually scored high enough for it to count in college and I didn't sign up.
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                  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                    Isn't that what he said? These revisions have gone so far we're just going to create a bunch of students who hate our country?
                    Read my edits made after your response. A crazy person with a legitimate point hidden beneath the derp is still a crazy person.

                    I will say my esteem for neurosurgeons drops daily if he's a typical representative. Having steady hands doesn't necessarily mean a good head, apparently.

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                    • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                      Originally posted by unofan View Post
                      Read my edits made after your response. A crazy person with a legitimate point hidden beneath the derp is still a crazy person.

                      I will say my esteem for neurosurgeons drops daily if he's a typical representative. Having steady hands doesn't necessarily mean a good head, apparently.
                      I don't disagree that he makes his point using overly dramatic imagery or analogies. Someone writing a thoughtful essay in the Times would probably make the point that revisionists and educators are obligated to think of the effect of the text in the new courses, in addition to its accuracy. Something that may be legit for high school advanced courses may not be legit for third graders.

                      But we all know that scholarly and thoughtful doesn't attract the blogs, twitter, and the twenty-four news cycle. As Donald Trump has ably demonstrated, loud and dramatic attract the news and attract the crowds. That has necessarily, and to our detriment, caused all politicians to move, in varying degrees, in that direction.

                      But it doesn't take away from the underlying point. What bothers me is when people are either too disingenuous or lazy to sift down to, or even stop and think about what the person really said, but takes the "dramatic" statement and broadcasts it as evidence of insanity.
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                      • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                        Originally posted by unofan View Post
                        Read my edits made after your response. A crazy person with a legitimate point hidden beneath the derp is still a crazy person.

                        I will say my esteem for neurosurgeons drops daily if he's a typical representative. Having steady hands doesn't necessarily mean a good head, apparently.
                        He wasn't a typical representative of neurosurgeons, from what I can tell. He's been called an elite one. That said, having great talent for neurosurgery is no guarantee for having talent in other areas of life.
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                        • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                          but takes the "dramatic" statement and broadcasts it as evidence of insanity.
                          It most definitely is evidence of insanity. The underlying point may be accurate but there is NO QUESTION that the man belongs in a padded room.
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                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                          • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                            Buy your access to the rich and powerful at the nominating convention. Liz, Bernie, and tD should be screaming.
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                            • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                              ****, I actually scored high enough for it to count in college and I didn't sign up.
                              Yes, but compared to what you and I studied, apparently the new curriculum for the class that was adopted last year emphasizes more of the unsavory chapters in white American history. As you know, talking a little bit more about the Trail of Tears and Vietnam, and doing a little bit less chest thumping over WW2 is the only scrap of red meat needed to trigger the nutjobs - consider it their version of a "microaggression".

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                              • Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                I'm not here defending all of Carson's past statements. Candidly, I know very little about the man or his past, what he may or may not have said, or what his mental health status is, but feel free to find any of my posts suggesting otherwise, if you'd like.

                                My response to Handy's freakout about Carson's abortion statement was to point out that if we were on the nine month end of the pregnancy continuum, a good majority of the public would probably agree with Carson that a woman attempting to hold dominion over the life or death of the about to be born child would be about as bad as what a slaveowner was doing. Carson, like many abortion opponents, simply goes too far back in the pregnancy.

                                But, keep jerking that knee.
                                The only one jerking a knee is you. Me posting the crazy loonbat crap Carson says is not a freak out, it is showing what one of the leading candidates for the Republican Nomination thinks and says and allows to be put in the ether. If he says this crap publicly how nuts must he be behind closed doors?

                                Like said, its on you if that stuff doesnt bother you. Me, I wonder how it is that the Grand Old Party are at this point fighting between nominating The Donald and Ben Carson. I find that scary...
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