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  • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

    Comparing a subscription for some feature to the trouble owning a car in a city isn't exactly a good comparison, as I see it. If you don't need a car, I don't see the extra $18/mo during winter months pushing you over the edge. Especially when there are more than enough makers that probably won't go that path. And if you can afford the makers that will probably go that path, then the economic impact is nothing.
    As a whole, this seems like it could total $1000+ year... That's a large chunk of change tacked on to an already inflated purchase price.
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    • Originally posted by RaceBoarder View Post

      As a whole, this seems like it could total $1000+ year... That's a large chunk of change tacked on to an already inflated purchase price.
      In theory, if you paid for the entire year. But it's on top of a $500/mo lease. Or more.

      And then comparin that against a multi-hundred a month parking rent....

      In the whole scheme of things, the people getting it will be very capable of dealing with the charges. If you are in a city, and $1000/year is the thing that breaks the camel's back... I suppose.

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      • This would just make me silently curse at my car’s manufacturer each time I saw the change show up AND every time I used the seat heater. Hope that $18/mo is worth all that bad will.
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        • So browsing Subarus - evidently remote start is available (at least on some models) only through a smart phone app that is subscription based. Could be a dealbreaker for us on principle.

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          • Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
            So browsing Subarus - evidently remote start is available (at least on some models) only through a smart phone app that is subscription based. Could be a dealbreaker for us on principle.
            Just get an aftermarket one installed.
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            • Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
              So browsing Subarus - evidently remote start is available (at least on some models) only through a smart phone app that is subscription based. Could be a dealbreaker for us on principle.
              My wife has similar subscription with Toyota, she loves it. Not sure how much it costs but not bad if you pay by the year. I doubt I'd pay for it
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              • Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
                So browsing Subarus - evidently remote start is available (at least on some models) only through a smart phone app that is subscription based. Could be a dealbreaker for us on principle.
                I have a 2014 Crosstrek (wouldn’t recommend one), but I have an aftermarket remote start sold by my local Subaru dealership. It’s limited by range, but there’s no subscription fee.
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                  • Meant to post this last week.

                    We got upgraded and had a newish Kia Niro hybrid for the two weeks in Scotland. Very impressed with even a baseline trim. No one would confuse it for a Lexus or anything, but it wasn't bad overall, especially after seeing the MSRP. Maybe I'll have to keep Kia in my sights next time we're car shopping.

                    Anyways, the reason I wanted to post was because this was my first experience in a hybrid. We drove >1,000 miles and got 60 mpg. Through hill country, winding roads, plenty of stops. Insane. I would have gotten like 15 mpg in my MDX if I were lucky. I also really enjoyed the (adaptive??) regenerative braking when descending hills. You could use the flappy paddles to select how strong the regenerative braking force was and how much it would charge the battery. Felt nice adding range while coasting instead of just incinerating brake pads. There was a bit of sloppiness while doing minor adjustments when parking. Letting off the brake didn't let you really inch forward without jerking the car. Probably tuned better in higher end vehicles.

                    This has basically confirmed for me that I won't have anything but an EV, PEHV, or hybrid as our next vehicle. Was nice to be able to sit idle without the guilt of burning dinosaurs. The hybrid even on a Kia was such a *ahem* breath of fresh air. Just an excellent experience overall.


                    As an addendum to the review, I will also say this: After spending two weeks putting 90% of my brain power to driving safely on very small roads (literally a single lane w/ pull offs on about 25% of all miles traveled), right-hand drive, and sharing the road with trucks inches from your car at 50+ mph, and dodging sheep - switching back to driving my normal car was an absolute mindfuck and a bit terrifying. Spending all of that brain power to forget muscle memory and then switch back was a bit touchy. Found myself drifting to the wrong side of the lane on the highway without even thinking. The regen braking vs. coasting was such a different experience. ANd the looking left first when turning was something I had to think about for that first couple drives.

                    And my god, it should also be illegal to not have Apple or Android car play in cars. No more of these stupid proprietary and expensive nav systems. Just let google and apple handle it from here on out.
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                    • If my company made a small hybrid SUV that could tow 3500lb, I would totally get it.... I just don't want a truck.

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                        • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                          Meant to post this last week.

                          We got upgraded and had a newish Kia Niro hybrid for the two weeks in Scotland. Very impressed with even a baseline trim. No one would confuse it for a Lexus or anything, but it wasn't bad overall, especially after seeing the MSRP. Maybe I'll have to keep Kia in my sights next time we're car shopping.

                          Anyways, the reason I wanted to post was because this was my first experience in a hybrid. We drove >1,000 miles and got 60 mpg. Through hill country, winding roads, plenty of stops. Insane. I would have gotten like 15 mpg in my MDX if I were lucky. I also really enjoyed the (adaptive??) regenerative braking when descending hills. You could use the flappy paddles to select how strong the regenerative braking force was and how much it would charge the battery. Felt nice adding range while coasting instead of just incinerating brake pads. There was a bit of sloppiness while doing minor adjustments when parking. Letting off the brake didn't let you really inch forward without jerking the car. Probably tuned better in higher end vehicles.

                          This has basically confirmed for me that I won't have anything but an EV, PEHV, or hybrid as our next vehicle. Was nice to be able to sit idle without the guilt of burning dinosaurs. The hybrid even on a Kia was such a *ahem* breath of fresh air. Just an excellent experience overall.


                          As an addendum to the review, I will also say this: After spending two weeks putting 90% of my brain power to driving safely on very small roads (literally a single lane w/ pull offs on about 25% of all miles traveled), right-hand drive, and sharing the road with trucks inches from your car at 50+ mph, and dodging sheep - switching back to driving my normal car was an absolute mindfuck and a bit terrifying. Spending all of that brain power to forget muscle memory and then switch back was a bit touchy. Found myself drifting to the wrong side of the lane on the highway without even thinking. The regen braking vs. coasting was such a different experience. ANd the looking left first when turning was something I had to think about for that first couple drives.

                          And my god, it should also be illegal to not have Apple or Android car play in cars. No more of these stupid proprietary and expensive nav systems. Just let google and apple handle it from here on out.
                          I have a Toyota Rav4 Prime (their PHEV) on order and I can't wait to get it. I'm expecting February or so, so not soon.

                          I'm fortunate to have more flexibility financially, and due to that I could not see a reason to buy a new ICE at all.
                          I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

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                          • Originally posted by Swansong View Post

                            I have a Toyota Rav4 Prime (their PHEV) on order and I can't wait to get it. I'm expecting February or so, so not soon.

                            I'm fortunate to have more flexibility financially, and due to that I could not see a reason to buy a new ICE at all.
                            Uh, a PHEV has an ICE in it. The whole thing about the numbers for electrification is more about the increase in hybrids rather than the elimination of ICEs.

                            That being said, if F made a small SUV hybrid that can tow 3500lb, we'd totally get it.

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                            • Originally posted by MichVandal View Post

                              Uh, a PHEV has an ICE in it. The whole thing about the numbers for electrification is more about the increase in hybrids rather than the elimination of ICEs.

                              That being said, if F made a small SUV hybrid that can tow 3500lb, we'd totally get it.
                              It has an ICE like a hybrid has an ICE, but I should have clarified in that I mean I can't imagine buying - for my uses - an exclusively ICE vehicle.
                              I gotta little bit of smoke and a whole lotta wine...

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                              • Originally posted by Swansong View Post

                                It has an ICE like a hybrid has an ICE, but I should have clarified in that I mean I can't imagine buying - for my uses - an exclusively ICE vehicle.
                                The reason I corrected you is that it's a pretty common mis-conception about so many companies declaring that they are going full electric. Most of them juse mean that they are not making any ICE exclusive vehicles anymore. AND the EV requirements really mean *EV- BEV, PHEV, HEV, MHEV.... Even a alternator/motor set up that's a couple of HP is included into EV's.

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