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The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgiving

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  • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    The government has the right to subpoena the records, it does not have the right to force Apple to unlock the phone.
    I agree - I'm saying only that I think Apple should.

    Apple Can, Should, And Will Help FBI Unlock Shooter's iPhone

    Can Apple unlock the shooter’s iPhone?

    The iPhone is a model 5C, which is rather fortunate because is not as protected as newer models. According to security firm Trail of Bits, Apple can create an iOS patch for the iPhone 5C that allows multiple attempts at the password without blocking it, slowing down password attempts, nor erasing encrypted data.

    Will the patch compromise privacy?

    Well, if developed with privacy in mind, it shouldn’t. Apple can develop the patch specifically for the shooter’s iPhone. Apple could demand conditions under which the patch cannot be accessed by the FBI. For example, the FBI is open to the unlocking happening in Apple premises, so Apple could install the patch, unlock the iPhone, and erase the patch before the iPhone is back in the FBI’s hands.

    Should Apple comply?

    So which option is riskier and costlier? I would say non-compliance, given that, technically, it is possible to ensure the patch is only used for the shooter’s iPhone. A future terrorist attack with an iPhone could lead to costly legal and PR nightmares. Plus, the FBI and the courts will see through Apple’s ability to comply while minimizing the risk of privacy violations for its customers, so they will not back down. Apple is not in a position to fight hard legally, and if it does it may just incur substantial legal expenses for an unlikely win. In a nutshell, it should comply.

    The advantages of Apple initially refusing to comply are:

    If Apple had complied right away, it would satisfy the FBI, those who lost their relatives in the San Bernardino incident, and those more concerned about future terrorist attacks than about iPhone data security. But privacy watchdogs and advocates would be unhappy, as well as other major tech firms which would be subject to hack their own hardware and software as Apple sets a precedent, with the costs associated. Not surprisingly, Google GOOGL +0.69% quickly and publicly backed Apple in its refusal to comply.

    [*]It caters to the otherwise unhappy privacy advocates and tech firms. Since the FBI and the courts are unlikely to back down, Apple becomes a victim and can pass on the blame to the government
    [*]The current media coverage represents global, massive free advertising that the iPhone is very secure, with the headline ”Not even the FBI can hack an iPhone.”
    [*]Apple will come across as a fighter for consumer privacy and iPhone security, consistent with its brand.
    Last edited by Slap Shot; 02-21-2016, 01:07 AM.

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    • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

      Originally posted by geezer View Post
      Because for-profit corporations are people too, and the federal government should be able to draft them to work for the government during "wartime."

      Yes, I think I said pretty much the same thing, in that Congress needs to clarify the situation by passing an appropriate law to provide the requisite authorization. Current law does not allow the government to compel Apple, a new law very well could.

      We'd first need to get an applicable law passed by Congress. that would change the nature of Apple's arguments considerably.
      Last edited by FreshFish; 02-21-2016, 08:01 AM.
      "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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      • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

        Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
        The point is that the government compels people and companies to do things all the time. This is not some completely new phenomenon with drastic, unprecedented consequences.
        Except that the section of PPACA in which the government tried to compel people to purchase health insurance was overturned as unconstitutional, so there already is precedent in saying that government compulsion to purchase a specific product is not okay (PPACA was then allowed to stand as a voluntary tax rather than a mandated purchase).

        So there already are precedents on the books that limit the extent to which the government can compel people and companies to do things.

        In the case of Apple, it may or may not be a constitutional question, at this point it is a legal situation that can be rectified with Congress passing a new law. The one the feds are citing from 1798 or whatever does not appear to be particularly on point.




        I wonder if state law in CA has any applicable statutes already in effect? Maybe the feds could find a friendly state prosecutor and state court and have it be a state action rather than a federal action to get Apple to unlock the phone??
        Last edited by FreshFish; 02-21-2016, 08:00 AM.
        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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        • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

          Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
          Violently?
          Passionately. Which kinda makes sense with Casey if you've got the whole OH NOES TEH BABIES!!! weirdness, but having a problem with Miranda tells me somebody's gone to the dark side of the moon.
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          • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

            The politics of the nomination, with a gratuitous shot at a hockey state coming out of nowhere.
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            • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

              Here's a good article on Apple's dilemma with actual facts and stuff: linky
              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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              • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                Here's a good article on Apple's dilemma with actual facts and stuff: linky
                With all due respect to the FBI, it isn't Apple's job to fight terrorism, so Apple should be more concerned with marketing.
                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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                • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin


                  This dispute leads to the most searing and uncomfortable moment of the morning. Alito attempts to ridicule Watt's deterrence arguments by asking, "Do you think the judges in traffic courts are going to start issuing lots of warrants because they want to provide a basis for randomly stopping people?"

                  Watt starts to answer, but Sotomayor cuts in with a brutal joust.

                  "I'm very surprised," she says acidly, "that Justice Alito doesn't know that most of these warrants are automatic. If you don't pay your fine within a certain amount of days, they're issued virtually automatically."
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                  • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                    The Republicans are a complete **** show.

                    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/us...smtyp=cur&_r=0
                    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                    • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                      Good stuff. I welcome an election where a major issue is whether Donald Trump gets to make a SCOTUS nomination or not.
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                      • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                        Originally posted by Rover View Post
                        Good stuff. I welcome an election where a major issue is whether Donald Trump gets to make a SCOTUS nomination or not.
                        All 11 of the Senators that signed this letter should be run out of office.

                        http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...US-Letter.html
                        Last edited by ScoobyDoo; 02-23-2016, 04:27 PM.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                        • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                          The Republicans are a complete **** show.

                          http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/us...smtyp=cur&_r=0
                          I told you...the GOP is fumbling this at every turn. They have all but guaranteed that the people wont let them make the decision after November. The Jon Oliver segment on this was brilliant btw.
                          "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
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                          • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                            Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                            I told you...the GOP is fumbling this at every turn. They have all but guaranteed that the people wont let them make the decision after November. The Jon Oliver segment on this was brilliant btw.
                            Yes it was. Everything John Oliver does is brilliant. Dare I say. Samantha Bee has been on fire with her new show as well.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                            • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              All 11 of the Senators that signed this letter should be run out of office.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...US-Letter.html
                              Run out of office? No, the Democrats pulled the same crap in my lifetime. But get a swift kick in the ***? Sure. But only if I get to don the boot.

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