2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Fair question. Blacks would probably be leaving the Democratic coalition already if they had anywhere to go, but obviously, right now, they don't -- when the Dixiecrats migrated to the GOP they brought their virulent racism with them.

Still, blacks are only about 15% of the Democratic coalition. The better question is: when do the poor start holding Democrats accountable for sitting passively while conservatives destroyed the American Dream and pushed inequality and poverty through the roof, even during times when Dems held the presidency and/or Congress? Look at how much damage, er, influence the social conservatives have been responsible for via the GOP, while the poor, who have similar numbers relative to the Democrats, have gotten nothing. But again, they have nowhere to go -- at the same time the Democrats shifted from a working class to a middle class party, the Republicans shifted from a middle class to an upper class party, albeit one with useful idiots among the rural poor who vote to slash their own throats in return for a religious head fake.

In each case, a sizeable chunk of the Demcoratic coalition could be up for grabs, but in each case the Republicans can't be the beneficiary unless they change so fundamentally that you'd almost not even call them the same party anymore.

A socially conservative, economically progressive working class third party would draw heavily from both parties. You can see people like Huckabee feeling blindly around, trying to get something like that off the ground, but so far the big two have managed to keep their strangleholds. Such a party could also be heavily statist and of course jingoist and anti-immigrant and thus hijack a lot of the firepower that the Tea Party had. Sure, it would be repellent, but we're already seeing in Europe how recession is the ideal Petri dish for racial parties. A younger, less isolationist Pat Buchanan could do some serious damage with that.

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

Oh, really?

DOMA for one. Hundreds of abortion restrictions across the country. Gay marriage bans in numerous states. Shutdowns of Abortion Clinics in numerous locations across the US. Voter ID laws passed in numerous states.

I could go on.

You know, I can't help it that 99% of the **** you guys ask for is Unconstitutional.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I know this isn't the right thread but I'm posting this here in honor of some of our posters. It's just too friggin good.

http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/photo...troll-internet

[burd]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

Social conservatives got the GOP to give Sarah Palin a platform. I would think they'd treasure that.

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Social conservatives got the GOP to give Sarah Palin a platform. I would think they'd treasure that.

Most social conservatives (and people in general) didn't know Sarah Palin existed until she was nominated for VP.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

We can disagree on the influence the social cons have had.

The main takeaway is that social conservatives and the urban poor could break away from the two major parties and have a shot at creating a major league third party. This hasn't happened so far because social conservatives haven't recognized that they can combine their social and economic interests, but if they ever do we're going to have a formidable populist party. You already see that rough beast slouching towards Washington during the GOP primaries. The mutual distrust and racism of both groups has so far polarized them, but if they ever make common cause against The System things get interesting.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I wish there was a cure for the Palin strain of derangement syndrome that is known to be particularly virulent among liberals, just so we wouldn't have to hear another peep out of that idiotic family.

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I wish there was a cure for the Palin strain of derangement syndrome that is known to be particularly virulent among liberals, just so we wouldn't have to hear another peep out of that idiotic family.

Seriously, you never hear social conservatives bring her up as some sort of paragon of political reason anymore. They've heard too many stupid things when her lips part that they've tossed her to the side. Democrats run with it as though they think she still stands as a mouthpiece for social conservatives everywhere, and that's the only time you hear about her or her dysfunctional, redneck family.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Democrats run with it as though they think she still stands as a mouthpiece for social conservatives everywhere, and that's the only time you hear about her or her dysfunctional, redneck family.

We've got Ben Carson now, thank you very much!

Regarding 3rd parties, social conservatism and economic populism don't mix. One isn't interested in the other. Economic populism = wealth transfers. Social conservatism = everybody for themselves. For someone dedicated to ending abortion, the notion that better social spending might mitigate the need for abortions falls on deaf ears. They'd rather see tangible evidence of success like closing down clinics.

Its like libertarianism. At face value it sounds plausible, and why aren't more people embracing it? They aren't because when you do a deeper dive either 1) the libertarians themselves aren't practicing what they preach, or 2) the whole thing is unrealistic.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Social conservatism = everybody for themselves

Not at all. Social conservatism is inherently communal (one reason why there's so much pressure to conform to norms). The marriage of social conservatism to laissez faire economics was a shot gun wedding -- it's artificial and forever at risk of falling apart. Part of why the GOP has to constantly enrage and terrify their captives with a parade of racial and sexual horribles is that without those threats the coalition would come apart. Social conservatives can read the Bible -- they know Jesus' message is that wealth is the dung of the devil and capitalism is un-Christian. It takes a lot of propaganda to keep them voting not only to slash their own throats, but also to defy Biblical prescriptions for kindness and generosity.

[unofan]

Not at all. Social conservatism is inherently communal (one reason why there's so much pressure to conform to norms). The marriage of social conservatism to laissez faire economics was a shot gun wedding -- it's artificial and forever at risk of falling apart. Part of why the GOP has to constantly enrage and terrify their captives with a parade of racial and sexual horribles is that without those threats the coalition would come apart. Social conservatives can read the Bible -- they know Jesus' message is that wealth is the dung of the devil and capitalism is un-Christian. It takes a lot of propaganda to keep them voting not only to slash their own throats, but also to defy Biblical prescriptions for kindness and generosity.

Except there's a growing population of "prosperity gospel" social conservatives out there, and they are all about looking out for number one. Because their wealth is a sign of God's graces.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Except there's a growing population of "prosperity gospel" social conservatives out there, and they are all about looking it for number one. Because their wealth is a sign of God's graces.

I doubt they will ever amount to anything significant. There's just no way around Matthew 19:24. The Big Guy wasn't being subtle.

[burd]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

You already see that rough beast slouching towards Washington during the GOP primaries.

I like the image; even the cadence works: Washington/Bethlehem

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Except there's a growing population of "prosperity gospel" social conservatives out there, and they are all about looking out for number one. Because their wealth is a sign of God's graces.

Yup. I get where Kep is coming from, but the problem is Republican Christians who actually read the Bible and go to church are about .1% of the population. Most self proclaimed social conservatives are sunshine Christians who exempt their own vices from the list of things you aren't supposed to do. Those who think politics are the best way to enforce religious beliefs are naturally inclined to think God picks winners and losers, because politics is ultimately about winning and losing. While it would be nice if the nirvana state Kep describes actually existed, unfortunately it does not.

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Yup. I get where Kep is coming from, but the problem is Republican Christians who actually read the Bible and go to church are about .1% of the population. Most self proclaimed social conservatives are sunshine Christians who exempt their own vices from the list of things you aren't supposed to do. Those who think politics are the best way to enforce religious beliefs are naturally inclined to think God picks winners and losers, because politics is ultimately about winning and losing. While it would be nice if the nirvana state Kep describes actually existed, unfortunately it does not.

As to God picking winners and losers, if you believe in predestination, He did. I don't.