2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

All Hail The Big Short and all. Figured this is the place to put a couple commentaries, one on the book and the other provides a little more current background on the author himself.

[unofan]

I know what you're saying, but this statement gave me quite the pause (been reading a lot of history books lately). The only guarantee about the future of nations is that they will fail.
Anyone care to venture a prediction on how long the United States of America has left? 5000 years? 50? Most likely closer to the second than the first.
Being controlled by the United States federal government is not synonymous with "guaranteed bedrock of stability." In fact nationalizing additional corrupting (for-profit) industries would probably be a slight destabilizing factor for the whole country.

When nations fall, the banking system will inherently go with it since its all based on the value of the underlying currency anyway.

There's no reason to allow the banks to push that date up through fraud, recklessness, or other systematic failures.

I wouldn't push nationalizing then, I'd take the Sherman Antitrust Act and break them up. But nationalizing them would still be a better option than the status quo of them being able to Fark up the economy without any lasting consequences.

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I think the US goes when the nation state goes, so it's going to be a while. For that matter, the demarcation of borders of nation states will probably long outlast the actuality of sovereign control within those borders (c.f., Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire).

Of course that doesn't mean the US will be stable over all that time. It's so big and unwieldy that the US might actually do well to split into two or more pieces at some point like the Roman Empire. We've really got three very broad cultural nations: the West, South, and Northeast, with the middle carved up however they like (the north-middle to the West and the south-middle to the South).

I'll call it at 2276, just to give us an even 500.

China is forever, everybody else is en passant.

4 nations: Wisconsin will still be there in some form, like a jilted pregnant redneck at the altar.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I don't think Rover or 5mn_Major have read or seen "The Big Short". You better. It should be mandatory reading and taught in every high school/college in the US.

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I think you guys are missing the massive penalties the banks all paid. Mostly deservedly mind you, but I get a little tired of the trite "Oh nothing happened to the banks" schlock. Banks paid through the nose, rightfully so, got forced to accept all sorts of new restrictive regulations, and have hemorrhaged jobs top to bottom. I agree in that people like Diman shouldn't still be running their banks. Aside from him and maybe one other, I'm not sure there's anybody left running the top 10 banks that was there during the crisis.

I think that this is pretty close. One can be a liberal and understand that societal success is a partnership between labor, government and business. In the end, we need em all.

The banks ultimately weren't that guilty and did pay. Many individuals on the other hand were quite guilty and didn't pay the penalties that they should have.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Anyone care to venture a prediction on how long the United States of America has left? 5000 years? 50? Most likely closer to the second than the first.

I think the US goes when the nation state goes, so it's going to be a while. For that matter, the demarcation of borders of nation states will probably long outlast the actuality of sovereign control within those borders (c.f., Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire).

Of course that doesn't mean the US will be stable over all that time. It's so big and unwieldy that the US might actually do well to split into two or more pieces at some point like the Roman Empire. We've really got three very broad cultural nations: the West, South, and Northeast, with the middle carved up however they like (the north-middle to the West and the south-middle to the South).

I'll call it at 2276, just to give us an even 500.

China is forever, everybody else is en passant.

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

nationalize you so that you cannot fail.

I know what you're saying, but this statement gave me quite the pause (been reading a lot of history books lately). The only guarantee about the future of nations is that they will fail.
Anyone care to venture a prediction on how long the United States of America has left? 5000 years? 50? Most likely closer to the second than the first.
Being controlled by the United States federal government is not synonymous with "guaranteed bedrock of stability." In fact nationalizing additional corrupting (for-profit) industries would probably be a slight destabilizing factor for the whole country.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I think you guys are missing the massive penalties the banks all paid. Mostly deservedly mind you, but I get a little tired of the trite "Oh nothing happened to the banks" schlock. Banks paid through the nose, rightfully so, got forced to accept all sorts of new restrictive regulations, and have hemorrhaged jobs top to bottom. I agree in that people like Diman shouldn't still be running their banks. Aside from him and maybe one other, I'm not sure there's anybody left running the top 10 banks that was there during the crisis.

Yeah, this is why I think you're not a liberal. The penalties were BS and you should absolutely know that being in the industry. The one lesson that came out of this is BofA and Goldman should have been broken on the wheel, but instead they're bigger now. We are so f-cked if this happens again, because nothing has changed. This is a hostage situation.

[unofan]

I think you guys are missing the massive penalties the banks all paid. Mostly deservedly mind you, but I get a little tired of the trite "Oh nothing happened to the banks" schlock. Banks paid through the nose, rightfully so, got forced to accept all sorts of new restrictive regulations, and have hemorrhaged jobs top to bottom. I agree in that people like Diman shouldn't still be running their banks. Aside from him and maybe one other, I'm not sure there's anybody left running the top 10 banks that was there during the crisis.

Massive penalties to you or me, drops in the bucket to them. The only person who went to jail was some mid level lackey.

And the onerous regulations are toothless.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

You just lost your lib card. Forever.

Its worth it if I get to inject some reality into these discussions.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I think you guys are missing the massive penalties the banks all paid. Mostly deservedly mind you, but I get a little tired of the trite "Oh nothing happened to the banks" schlock. Banks paid through the nose, rightfully so, got forced to accept all sorts of new restrictive regulations, and have hemorrhaged jobs top to bottom. I agree in that people like Diman shouldn't still be running their banks. Aside from him and maybe one other, I'm not sure there's anybody left running the top 10 banks that was there during the crisis.

You just lost your lib card. Forever.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I think you guys are missing the massive penalties the banks all paid. Mostly deservedly mind you, but I get a little tired of the trite "Oh nothing happened to the banks" schlock. Banks paid through the nose, rightfully so, got forced to accept all sorts of new restrictive regulations, and have hemorrhaged jobs top to bottom. I agree in that people like Diman shouldn't still be running their banks. Aside from him and maybe one other, I'm not sure there's anybody left running the top 10 banks that was there during the crisis.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Outside of people in the financial sector no one is exonerating the banks or the hedgers

No one but the ones who mattered: the Justice Department.

This was a heist. We all agree the victims shouldn't have left the front door unlocked, but that does not in any way change the fact that the burglars should be in prison, and instead they walk down the street in broad daylight showing off the loot they stole, and the police and the mayor do nothing.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Agree with Handy and sorry Slappy but despite your nice summary you missed the first and foremost point, which is the American people decided to live way beyond their means to an extent we've never seen before in this country, or at least not since the 20's. If you don't understand the terms of a loan, DON'T SIGN IT!!!!

As Handy has correctly stated, scams have been around for ages, trying to get people to buy something using deceptive terms. People know this - they just didn't care. We, our friends and our neighbors caused this.

So, there's a double standard then. Cause when the banks do it they get bailed. When the American People do it they get ****ed.

Nice system.

[unofan]

Agree with Handy and sorry Slappy but despite your nice summary you missed the first and foremost point, which is the American people decided to live way beyond their means to an extent we've never seen before in this country, or at least not since the 20's. If you don't understand the terms of a loan, DON'T SIGN IT!!!!

As Handy has correctly stated, scams have been around for ages, trying to get people to buy something using deceptive terms. People know this - they just didn't care. We, our friends and our neighbors caused this.

And the banks profited from it, and then got bailed out when their own house of cards collapsed. A single mortgage going under doesn't threaten the national economy, Goldman Sachs going under does. The former is the mistake of an ignorant rube, the latter was systematic fraud by supposed experts. Guess who deserves more culpability...

You owe the bank a thousand dollars, the bank owns you. You owe the bank 10,000,000, and you own the bank. The US government should not be in the position of letting any financial institution "own" it's economy in that way.