2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

[Handyman]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Of course people didnt need to take out loans for houses they didnt need or couldnt afford. The banks were horrid, but none of this happens if people were smart enough to think for 5 seconds. (or you know, read the mortgage they sign) The average rube was the mark at the table, the guy who has never played poker before invited by his buddies to play who then wonders why he leaves with empty pockets.

That doesnt excuse what the banks did, but a fool and his money...

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Home values were not going to be protected. Sorry

I would argue they would have been through proxy. The problem with the crash was the "way" the banks were loaning out money. If the loan institutions had been separated from the risk takers then, I would argue, the high risk loan BS that went on never would have happened. Home values wouldn't have soared, but they likely wouldn't have crashed either.

The Banks were making so much money off of loan processing that they failed to even think about the validity of the loans themselves. That should be, and should have been a criminal act.

[mookie1995]

Sure it would have. It may not have prevented the crash, but it would have protected the Banks we care about (and homes and their values) and we would have been allowed to let the risk takers take the fall.

Home values were not going to be protected. Sorry

[mookie1995]

Yes and no on that, with regards to who was allowed to fail and who wasn't. If you listen to BoA, their former CEO states that they was pressured to purchase Meryll Lynch by the federal government, and then hung out to dry as they failed certain federal scrutiny tests because they had insufficient resources available to them due to purchasing Meryll.

They should have negotiated better terms. (Plus you don't think Kenny Lewis is gonna make himself look bad, do you )

[unofan]

You don't like dealing with them (I've never had an interaction with them outside of pro-to-pro work), and so it's okay for the federal government to railroad the company's CEO out of his job? The whole ML acquisition is why he was ousted from his position. That's not right.

Yeah, sorry, I don't care when the devil gets burned by one of his own deals.

Bank of America may have gotten screwed on that one, but they've screwed so many people themselves that I really don't care. That's just the chicken coming home to roost.

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Boo farking Hoo. BoA is up there with the cable companies as far as being one of the worst companies in the country to deal with.

You don't like dealing with them (I've never had an interaction with them outside of pro-to-pro work), and so it's okay for the federal government to railroad the company's CEO out of his job? The whole ML acquisition is why he was ousted from his position. That's not right.

[unofan]

Yes and no on that, with regards to who was allowed to fail and who wasn't. If you listen to BoA, their former CEO states that they was pressured to purchase Meryll Lynch by the federal government, and then hung out to dry as they failed certain federal scrutiny tests because they had insufficient resources available to them due to purchasing Meryll.

Boo farking Hoo. BoA is up there with the cable companies as far as being one of the worst companies in the country to deal with.

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Houses w/o deposit banks were allowed to go under Bear & Lehamn). Then the Jamie's of the world who had a bank attached went and milked out govment money to shield themselves.
But true, even with G/S they would have scared the Feds into bailing them out at some point.

Yes and no on that, with regards to who was allowed to fail and who wasn't. If you listen to BoA, their former CEO states that they was pressured to purchase Meryll Lynch by the federal government, and then hung out to dry as they failed certain federal scrutiny tests because they had insufficient resources available to them due to purchasing Meryll.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

PS - I don't believe Glass-Steagall would have prevented the Great Recession. Not even close IMHO. Its just not that simple, and it misses the point that the greed of the American people themselves caused that recession, not some nefarious gubmint policy.

Sure it would have. It may not have prevented the crash, but it would have protected the Banks we care about (and homes and their values) and we would have been allowed to let the risk takers take the fall.

[mookie1995]

PS - I don't believe Glass-Steagall would have prevented the Great Recession. Not even close IMHO. Its just not that simple, and it misses the point that the greed of the American people themselves caused that recession, not some nefarious gubmint policy.

Houses w/o deposit banks were allowed to go under Bear & Lehamn). Then the Jamie's of the world who had a bank attached went and milked out govment money to shield themselves.
But true, even with G/S they would have scared the Feds into bailing them out at some point.

[mookie1995]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

The issue with higher education is the costs. Schools have been able to raise their prices outside of the constraint of inflation cause very few pay the bill. Many either get government grants or borrow and worry about repaying that after graduation.

A bully pulpit holder should pull the tax-exempt status from colleges unless they cut costs in half (along with professorial salaries, administrative salaries, etc).
In fact, how about we remove salaries as a tax deduction for businesses?
Make dividends and interest regular income?

Easy starting points.

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I think it's a fair point but only to some extent. We've seen time and time again that if you put out a hyper-detailed position paper your opponents will simply rip it to shreds, which distracts from the overall vision.

I want my think tanks telling me how to best soak the rich. It's enough for my presidential candidate to announce he favors soaking the rich, as distinct from the rest of the field who differ only in the degree to which they'll pucker up before fellating them. There is plenty of time for details after election, and of course those details will change a dozen times during the sausage-making process, so holding yourself to your campaign announced details is suicidal.

So I agree with you to the extent that, say, a candidate should say he favors replacing Obamacare with a single payer system. But as to the gory details of that system, that's something that will be fought over in the Oval Office and the cloak room, and there's no point in boxing yourself in before you get started.

See this is part of the problem for me. I need to know how realistic the guy is. That's the difference between a President who moves the ball downfield and one who doesn't. I don't need the guy to write the law and post it on his campaign website, but " how are you paying for this" isn't too much to ask. As I said before, if he doesn't fill in the blanks the Republicans will, and you know as well as I do the media will run with whatever they say about his plans unless he pushes back.

PS - I don't believe Glass-Steagall would have prevented the Great Recession. Not even close IMHO. Its just not that simple, and it misses the point that the greed of the American people themselves caused that recession, not some nefarious gubmint policy.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Re-regulation would have prevented 2007 but considering we changed nothing even after being ripped off for trillions by the speculators and banks, it's going to take a full-scale second great depression before the voters get savvy and mad enough to jail the fraudsters and nuke Wall Street.

Sadly, the only solution was to let them fail the first time. It would have increased the pain to the average citizen, but it would have freed our economy from the vampire squid and deleted the criminals from Wall Street, if not from actual existence.

It just makes you appreciate "The Big Short" even more. The explanations. The terms. Steve Carell's characters anguish. I also left that film wishing I had born with the smarts to figure it out like they had and exploit it like they did. I just don't have the DNA for that (or professional athletics, or a number of other things for that matter).

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Very good piece on the substantive effect on taxes of Obama's re-election. It's much better news than I would have thought, and makes me raise the grade of the Obama presidency -- say, from a B+ to an A-.

That's a tough call. B+ or A-. Its in that range. The international scene has become more chaotic (very little he was responsible for). Being in the chair as the markets tripled is probably a feat unique in our history. And I'm of the opinion that some of the pull back is due to election year uncertainty.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I believe that would have prevented what happened in 2008. I doubt that the power structure will ever allow it to happen.

Re-regulation would have prevented 2007 but considering we changed nothing even after being ripped off for trillions by the speculators and banks, it's going to take a full-scale second great depression before the voters get savvy and mad enough to jail the fraudsters and nuke Wall Street.

Sadly, the only solution was to let them fail the first time. It would have increased the pain to the average citizen, but it would have freed our economy from the vampire squid and deleted the criminals from Wall Street, if not from actual existence.