The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Aside - Do people under the age of 50 still use Post-Its?

Yes.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Aside - Do people under the age of 50 still use Post-Its?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

It's entirely relevant. They could have been researching quantum mechanics as their main work focus, and just grabbed onto computers as a method for their research. And they could just as easily have been working at two Ivy League schools and the whole thing never would have happen. They were simply trying to overcome geographic distances. That said, the Euro-US networking effort involved a professor at Princeton (just looked it up), working with counterparts in Stockholm and London.

I'm sorry, but it's not relevant, at least IMNSHO. They were enabled by government research. Whether that was their directive or not. The point is, that the government is a massive R&D organization and maybe the best in the world. Public universities are part of that network.

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

THat's irrelevant. Things like Post-Its were discovered by accident. Hell, much of what seems to be some of 3M's biggest hits were discovered by accident.

It's entirely relevant. They could have been researching quantum mechanics as their main work focus, and just grabbed onto computers as a method for their research. And they could just as easily have been working at two Ivy League schools and the whole thing never would have happen. They were simply trying to overcome geographic distances. That said, the Euro-US networking effort involved a professor at Princeton (just looked it up), working with counterparts in Stockholm and London.

[BassAle]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Yes, public schools. Like I said, the development of the internet was not the government's intent. The professors were acting independently of any sort of stated objective. They had a desire to more efficiently share research.

I don't think this is 100% accurate. Computer science labs began research packet networking almost as soon as computer science became a 'thing' in the late 50s. They had an objective -- to develop reliable networking protocols. The DoD awarded research contracts in the 60s for packet networks. This evolved to include protocols that allowed connecting different networks together. The first ARPANET message was sent form UCLA to Stanford. UCLA was getting DoD funding for this research. The government absolutely had the intent to develop what became known as the internet. Thats why TCP/IP was produced from a DARPA research project.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Yes, public schools. Like I said, the development of the internet was not the government's intent. The professors were acting independently of any sort of stated objective. They had a desire to more efficiently share research.

THat's irrelevant. Things like Post-Its were discovered by accident. Hell, much of what seems to be some of 3M's biggest hits were discovered by accident.

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

So public schools?

Yes, public schools. Like I said, the development of the internet was not the government's intent. The professors were acting independently of any sort of stated objective. They had a desire to more efficiently share research.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

So public schools?

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Which universities?

UCLA and Utah in the US, and a few European schools, I think.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Which universities?

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Manhattan Project, Space Race, The Internet

Three of mankind's greatest achievements. All done with government R&D as opposed to the private organizations. Sure they had contractors, but the R&D was done by government. THis isn't even getting into the R&D organizations that make up the American university system, Los Alamos, Oak Ridge, Fermilab, Argonne, Livermore, NASA, NSF, EPA, DARPA, USGS, etc.

THe US government is one of the greatest R&D institutions in the world, if not the greatest.

The US government had no specific agenda to create the internet. It was created back in the 60's by professors for the express reason that they wanted to more quickly exchange research data. The fact that they worked for publicly financed universities is a side note. The government then found out what these professors were doing, and realized the military applications, funded its development even further which led to ARPANET in the 80's.

[5mn_Major]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Manhattan Project, Space Race, The Internet

Three of mankind's greatest achievements. All done with government R&D as opposed to the private organizations. Sure they had contractors, but the R&D was done by government. THis isn't even getting into the R&D organizations that make up the American university system, Los Alamos, Oak Ridge, Fermilab, Argonne, Livermore, NASA, NSF, EPA, DARPA, USGS, etc.

THe US government is one of the greatest R&D institutions in the world, if not the greatest.

While that's a good point, I would say that those are all technology/scientific achievements. The one with consumer application was the internet. And private enterprise was the group that got consumption value out of it - government could never have created even a small amount of what's been achieved by business.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Manhattan Project, Space Race, The Internet

Three of mankind's greatest achievements. All done with government R&D as opposed to the private organizations. Sure they had contractors, but the R&D was done by government. THis isn't even getting into the R&D organizations that make up the American university system, Los Alamos, Oak Ridge, Fermilab, Argonne, Livermore, NASA, NSF, EPA, DARPA, USGS, etc.

THe US government is one of the greatest R&D institutions in the world, if not the greatest.

[5mn_Major]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

My opinion is that for specialized fields that can operate their market effectively, private organizations are the best choice. Energy is one area where it seems to work. Energy organizations have quite a bit of strategic head room and so can offer more creative solutions. Energy organizations also can get into R&D and help to develop solutions for the future. If you're a progressive, private enterprise are just better for innovation. Government run organizations are most effective where strict continued management is more important or the marketplace can't provide goods and services to those who need it - see education.

There is something clearly wrong in health care management. Too much of its run by middle men - health insurance - that don't allow services for higher cost customers. At minimum, there needs considerable more regulation. This is a rare case where the government may need to step and take over basic insurance plans to make sure the market gets served

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Stop making up facts. They aren't even alternate facts.