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The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

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  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

    And there you have it. What drug companies do best: marketing.
    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

      Well, I was thinking more of patent laws, which is the only way Shkrelli could inflate the price of his drug by such margins. Those kids spent $15 to make 3.7g of Daraprim, so you know a generic pharma company will eventually do the same thing for an even lower cost.

      Like it or not, patents were created to allow the inventors to garner greater-than-market returns on their new inventions. At the time they were originally conceived, life saving inventions weren't on anyone's minds. The US Government, and various international governments, would have to come together to make exemptions, or special alterations, for those companies from patent protections that would apply to other industries.
      "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

        While that is true, the problem is a generic lab cant do it because Turing holds exclusive rights to distribute X amount of years. That should be fixed for medicines because it not only creates a monopoly but it puts people's lives at risk.
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        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
          While that is true, the problem is a generic lab cant do it because Turing holds exclusive rights to distribute X amount of years. That should be fixed for medicines because it not only creates a monopoly but it puts people's lives at risk.
          That is quite literally everything I just said, only made more succinct.
          "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

          "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

          "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

            Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
            Can you tell me just exactly what insurance value add is worth nearly a quarter of all healthcare expenditures? If you can't answer that, then you have your answer about the government's ability to do it for less.
            The idea that government can "do it for less" is a myth based on faulty data. They intentionally omit losses to fraud from their calculation of administrative costs. That is a basic accounting error.

            They also omit the cost of capital from their calculation of administrative costs as well.

            Finally, it is based on a static picture: there is no financial incentive to reduce costs or to innovate improvements. While government might fund basic R&D, it still has not on its own developed a single piece of equipment nor manufactured a single drug or vaccine.
            "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

              Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
              Finally, it is based on a static picture: there is no financial incentive to reduce costs or to innovate improvements. While government might fund basic R&D, it still has not on its own developed a single piece of equipment nor manufactured a single drug or vaccine.
              And how is any of that related to insurance providers?

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              • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                The idea that government can "do it for less" is a myth based on faulty data. They intentionally omit losses to fraud from their calculation of administrative costs. That is a basic accounting error.

                They also omit the cost of capital from their calculation of administrative costs as well.

                Finally, it is based on a static picture: there is no financial incentive to reduce costs or to innovate improvements. While government might fund basic R&D, it still has not on its own developed a single piece of equipment nor manufactured a single drug or vaccine.
                Penicillin was first mass produced in the USDA research lab in Peoria.
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                • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                  While government might fund basic R&D, it still has not on its own developed a single piece of equipment nor manufactured a single drug or vaccine.
                  http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...ayers-20110210

                  Wrong again.

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                  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                    The idea that government can "do it for less" is a myth based on faulty data. They intentionally omit losses to fraud from their calculation of administrative costs. That is a basic accounting error.

                    They also omit the cost of capital from their calculation of administrative costs as well.

                    Finally, it is based on a static picture: there is no financial incentive to reduce costs or to innovate improvements. While government might fund basic R&D, it still has not on its own developed a single piece of equipment nor manufactured a single drug or vaccine.
                    I understand how people fell for this stuff in the 80s -- there was an enormous astro-turfing effort behind it and unless you had been reading crank econ fliers and attending culty far right conferences, it sounded new and refreshing. But how anybody can still not only swallow this stuff after thirty years of its exposure as merde in the marketplace of ideas, but actually vomit it back up again without an inkling that it is a dead thesis, is really kind of neat. The epistemic closure of the right is complete: there is no way for them to know they are wrong because all the dollars are behind telling them they are right.
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                    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                      Suckers.
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                      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        This was already discussed - those in Trump counties had the worst health and most needs for healthcare. Interesting thing is that Trump appears to be faar more populist than the team he's building. It appears that his agenda will be the irony of trying to help big business and yet the little guy...whereas his cabinet's will be the twin goals of ideology while destroying the status quo. Obamacare falls squarely in the middle of that.

                        BTW, we're approaching the deadline for new insurance for the year. Shopping via the exchanges has given me the cheapest insurance this year that I've ever had.
                        Go Gophers!

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                        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                          The idea that government can "do it for less" is a myth based on faulty data. They intentionally omit losses to fraud from their calculation of administrative costs. That is a basic accounting error.

                          They also omit the cost of capital from their calculation of administrative costs as well.

                          Finally, it is based on a static picture: there is no financial incentive to reduce costs or to innovate improvements. While government might fund basic R&D, it still has not on its own developed a single piece of equipment nor manufactured a single drug or vaccine.
                          I wish I were 20 again. I'd be gone.
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                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                            Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                            Interesting thing is that Trump appears to be faar more populist than the team he's building.
                            Reagan all over again. Populist hood ornament hiding a pure Plute engine. That combination is very common; the yokels seem to always fall for it.

                            F-ck em. They have eyes; they could have figured it out if they weren't so mentally lazy.
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                            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                              The amount of misinformation out there about HSAs is jaw-dropping. I'm reading through a Slot article on Jezebel and neither they or the commenters understand how an HSA works.

                              Anyways, I'm not saying they would be a good option for the federal system unless the Feds kick in a good amount every year. Like social security for medicine. Nicely done republicans.
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                              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                                If I could design health insurance policy, I would never have the major source of health insurance be employers. That we have such a goofy system in the first place is a result of market distortions dating back to WWII and the wage and price controls implemented to keep inflation in check: while wages were capped, fringe benefits were not, and so employers trying to recruit and retain top talent expanded benefit packages.

                                That is both the beauty and the bane of market forces. Market forces help self-correct for new innovations and unforeseen opportunities, and when there are market distortions (always starting with good intentions), there are always unintended consequences.

                                How wasteful is it on a macro level to have so many employers hiring staffs of people do to exactly the same thing: help employees shop the insurance market on their behalf. and how does that affect people who want to move from one job to another seamlessly? We can roll over our 401k into a self-directed IRA or into a new employer's plan, but we cannot roll over our health insurance from one company to another or into a self-directed health plan? that is goofy.

                                just about every other form of insurance I can think of, there is a direct relationship between the insured and the insurer; only with health insurance (okay, and group disability income insurance too) do we have to go through an intermediary. Even with employer-sponsored benefits, the employer facilitates the arrangement but we still have a direct contract with AFLAC, say, we are not covered under a contract between the employer and the insurer.



                                Of course, transitioning away from that model now would be complicated. That would be the best way though to bring rational pricing back to the marketplace, except for pre-existing conditions, which is a whole different situation for everyone.
                                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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