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The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

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  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

    Originally posted by joecct View Post
    More ammunition for the it's a flawed law crowd.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...auI/story.html
    It's all part of the plan. If they can't get single payer by law, they'll use free market manipulation to artificially create a monopoly and then use that as the single payer.

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    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
      It's all part of the plan. If they can't get single payer by law, they'll use free market manipulation to artificially create a monopoly and then use that as the single payer.
      Sounds like a plan.

      The only alarmist language I heard during the WE MUST KILL OBAMACARE!!!11 circus that was true was that it was a wedge that would eventually result in single payer. That's true -- the problems with the ACA are solveable by expanding Medicare to include all Americans, whereas the advantages are already obvious to all but the most blindly partisan. Basically the ACA is a sane health care system with insurance company profits grafted onto it artificially because 'MURICA ECONOMIC FREEDUMB. The heavy lifting on the healthcare portion has been done. What's left is to burn off the vestigial vampire squid of Aetna and Cigna. We don't have the political will to do that in this White House and Congress, but it'll happen sometime down the line when taxpayers get sick of funneling windfalls to those guys.
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      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Sounds like a plan.

        The only alarmist language I heard during the WE MUST KILL OBAMACARE!!!11 circus that was true was that it was a wedge that would eventually result in single payer. That's true -- the problems with the ACA are solveable by expanding Medicare to include all Americans, whereas the advantages are already obvious to all but the most blindly partisan. Basically the ACA is a sane health care system with insurance company profits grafted onto it artificially because 'MURICA ECONOMIC FREEDUMB. The heavy lifting on the healthcare portion has been done. What's left is to burn off the vestigial vampire squid of Aetna and Cigna. We don't have the political will to do that in this White House and Congress, but it'll happen sometime down the line when taxpayers get sick of funneling windfalls to those guys.
        Biggest issue I see with Medicare is that it is still a forced monopoly, i.e. it is a FELONY to pay for medical coverage out of pocket if your plan covers it. That's the biggest reason that said "blindly partisans" talk about death panels and delays in care, and is why people from other countries flock here to get procedures done. On top of that, you're forcing people to pay for something they either don't use or don't have the income to make, which is against one of the founding principles of this nation. If you address those two points, you might be able to make some headway. Until then, you will encounter resistance.

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        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

          Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
          Biggest issue I see with Medicare is that it is still a forced monopoly, i.e. it is a FELONY to pay for medical coverage out of pocket if your plan covers it.
          In principle I have no problem if the Kochs want to pay out of pocket for their ritual diamond bloodlettings or whatever. I'm all for the rich still getting to do their richie rich stuff, as long as they help foot the bill for the poor to get coverage.
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          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

            Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
            On top of that, you're forcing people to pay for something they either don't use or don't have the income to make, which is against one of the founding principles of this nation.
            That's an overstatement. We pay for schools even if we don't have kids. There are plenty of public goods we pay for that we don't directly use. The Founders were cool with that, by the way -- they weren't nearly the cray cray anarchists the Church of Latter Day Rockwell thinks they were.

            As far as forcing people to pay for something they can't afford, I'm all for a completely public system paid for out of the general fund and supported by tax dollars which are collected via a highly progressive tax system, so I'm not tapping folks who can't afford it. Quite the opposite.
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            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              In principle I have no problem if the Kochs want to pay out of pocket for their ritual diamond bloodlettings or whatever. I'm all for the rich still getting to do their richie rich stuff, as long as they help foot the bill for the poor to get coverage.
              Wait, I assume it isn't a felony to pay for medical coverage OOP, so what's he screeching about?
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              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                Wait, I assume it isn't a felony to pay for medical coverage OOP, so what's he screeching about?
                You'll have to ask him. I think he's saying if Koch wants a new kidney and the actuarial algorithm says he's behind 290 million more deserving candidates, there's no provision for him to legally buy his way to the front of the line. I'm saying that I support a system where he can do so. That'll be $10 billion, please, and no I won't take a check. I'm willing to let John Hoyt on the rocket if he pays for it.
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                • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                  Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                  Wait, I assume it isn't a felony to pay for medical coverage OOP, so what's he screeching about?
                  Actually, if you're on Medicare, and you try to pay for something that is covered by your present Medicare coverage OOP, it is a felony. If it's not covered, OOP is fine. This was something covered by Herman Cain when he described his plan for health care reformation.

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                  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    That's an overstatement. We pay for schools even if we don't have kids. There are plenty of public goods we pay for that we don't directly use. The Founders were cool with that, by the way -- they weren't nearly the cray cray anarchists the Church of Latter Day Rockwell thinks they were.

                    As far as forcing people to pay for something they can't afford, I'm all for a completely public system paid for out of the general fund and supported by tax dollars which are collected via a highly progressive tax system, so I'm not tapping folks who can't afford it. Quite the opposite.
                    Not an overstatement at all. The homeless don't pay for schools, because said taxes are based upon your ownership of property in a specific district. Renters don't pay it directly, although lanlords will typically pass said cost onto the renter in the form of total rent cost.

                    As for tapping folks who can't afford it, guess what the PPACA does, if you read it closely. And before you start claiming exemptions, you still have to report it to the federal government, and you have to pay a certain amount to be able to send said information tot he government.

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                    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                      It's all part of the plan. If they can't get single payer by law, they'll use free market manipulation to artificially create a monopoly and then use that as the single payer.
                      And yet another merger to get to that point. http://www.cnbc.com/id/102811310

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                      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                        Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                        And yet another merger to get to that point. http://www.cnbc.com/id/102811310
                        In a world where banks are too-big-to-fail, and thus too big to merge, we have this. A 23% premium seems a bit much to me for a normal merger, for some reason.
                        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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                        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                          In a world where banks are too-big-to-fail, and thus too big to merge, we have this. A 23% premium seems a bit much to me for a normal merger, for some reason.
                          We'll have to see what the regulatory agencies have to say about this, as well as the "status" of said regulators if they say no.

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                          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                            That merger needs to be blocked just like Time Warner/Comcast was blocked.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              That merger needs to be blocked just like Time Warner/Comcast was blocked.
                              They'll have 180 days to decide. Time Warner's trying another merger, this time with Charter.

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                              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                                How dare you assist with health costs! http://www.independentsentinel.com/i...care-premiums/

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