The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Mookie's premiums are going up 12% in 2017

Come work down the street. 5% for me.

[Handyman]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

100 lbs Sugar ... check
500 mg Epinephrine and Auto-injector ... check
75,000 rds hollow-point bullets ... check
1 cmplt set back issues of Jugs Magazine ... check

You are making him give up his tin foil?

[5mn_Major]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Good News!

Everybody's probably heard today that ObamaCare premiums are going up dramatically next year.

But no worries! I just heard on the way home that they'll probably just increase something they call subsidies!

So the increase will just all be FREE! Yay!

There are only two decisions to make on this. 1. do you everyone covered? If so, folks are paying no matter what. Its either through subsidies or its through more expensive premiums. It really doesn't matter which way. 2. are we going to make health insurance providers compete on price? If not, we'll continue to get the same healthcare but pay ridiculously high prices. That's the decision on whether the markets succeed and whether there's regulations to stop insurance companies from cherry picking their customers.

The two questions will drive the future of our quality and cost of healthcare.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

There are only two decisions to make on this. 1. do you everyone covered? If so, folks are paying no matter what. Its either through subsidies or its through more expensive premiums. It really doesn't matter which way. 2. are we going to make health insurance providers compete on price? If not, we'll continue to get the same healthcare but pay ridiculously high prices. That's the decision on whether the markets succeed and whether there's regulations to stop insurance companies from cherry picking their customers.

The two questions will drive the future of our quality and cost of healthcare.

Most of the boards of directors for those companies are "shared". Conflict of interest will keep the oligarchy from competing with each other. Instead, they will "compete".

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Look, the great myth of Obamacare is that it was going to have two great results -- we were going to get everyone covered by health insurance and we were going to lower the cost of health insurance/health care (revisionist history later changed this to "we're going to slow the rate of growth of health insurance/health care costs).

Here is the problem. A huge portion of the American public was already covered, either through Medicare/Medicaid or through employer sponsored policies. That really hasn't changed as a result of Obamacare.

In the short term did we add more people to the coverage lists. No question. Did we reduce health insurance/health care costs in the short term? There is an argument that we slowed the cost increases in the first year or so, but I think we all see now that is primarily a result of insurance companies guessing at what the rates should be based upon unknown factors created by Obamacare. Once they realized they guessed wrong, the slowed growth victory is going the way of the dildo bird. These 50% annual increases are going to quickly drive those newly covered individuals back off the insurance rolls, and probably take a few more people with them. Which is great. Now, they're not only uninsured but they're breaking the law on top of it.

The next argument perpetrated by the sheeple goes something like, "if the GOP can't come up with a solution for fixing Obamacare, they need to stop whining about it."

Except, the problem is that Obamacare is precisely like the Iraq/Afghan war problem. It his a huge s h ! t pie, and it's not something we can just say, "nevermind" and pretend like we never created it. Pulling all of our troops out of the middle east and simply repealing Obamacare are both incredibly stupid ideas. But the fact that we can't do those things certainly doesn't minimize or relieve responsibility for the lies and misinformation that got us into both messes.

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Look, the great myth of Obamacare is that it was going to have two great results we were going to get everyone covered by health insurance and we were going to lower the cost of health insurance/health care (revisionist history later changed this to "we're going to slow the rate of growth of health insurance/health care costs).

Here is the problem. A huge portion of the American public was already covered, either through Medicare/Medicaid or through employer sponsored policies. That really hasn't changed as a result of Obamacare.

In the short term did we add more people to the coverage lists. No question. Did we reduce health insurance/health care costs in the short term? There is an argument that we slowed the cost increases in the first year or so, but I think we all see now that is primarily a result of insurance companies guessing at what the rates should be based upon unknown factors created by Obamacare. Once they realized they guessed wrong, the slowed growth victory is going the way of the dildo bird. These 50% annual increases are going to quickly drive those newly covered individuals back off the insurance rolls, and probably take a few more people with them. Which is great. Now, they're not only uninsured but they're breaking the law on top of it.

The next argument perpetrated by the sheeple goes something like, "if the GOP can't come up with a solution for fixing Obamacare, they need to stop whining about it."

Except, the problem is that Obamacare is precisely like the Iraq/Afghan war problem. It his a huge s h ! t pie, and it's not something we can just say, "nevermind" and pretend like we never created it. Pulling all of our troops out of the middle east and simply repealing Obamacare are both incredibly stupid ideas. But the fact that we can't do those things certainly doesn't minimize or relieve responsibility for the lies and misinformation that got us into both messes.

I've highlighted 3 blatant lies in your post, but I'm sorta curious about what a "dildo bird" is and why they went extinct.

Most complaints about repealing the ACA at this point are confined to frustrated older conservative males who haven't been laid in 30 years and blame the ACA for that. I don't want to name names here (cough..Fishy...cough) but that's pretty much it. But, I'll make it simple. The last two Gooper Presidential candidates ran explicitly on a repeal and go back to the pre-ACA set up platform. One guy (Mittens) lost handily. The other (Trump) is about to get crushed! If people truly felt the way the serial whiners do, why won't the public elect these men President? Dealing with anti-Obamacare people is like dealing with the Flat Earthed Society. Eventually when it turns out you're not looking for solutions but just want to complain, you just set yourselves up as objects of ridicule. That works for me, but I'm not sure what you get out of it.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

I've highlighted 3 blatant lies in your post, but I'm sorta curious about what a "dildo bird" is and why they went extinct.

If they're such lies, then what, pray tell, was the goal of the PPACA? While you "enlighten" us with your spoon-fed White House drivel, we're more than happy to look back at what you said 6-7 years ago, when this was first jammed through Congress, to see if it's consistent.

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Most of the boards of directors for those companies are "shared". Conflict of interest will keep the oligarchy from competing with each other. Instead, they will "compete".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlocking_directorate

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica...community.html

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

If they're such lies, then what, pray tell, was the goal of the PPACA? While you "enlighten" us with your spoon-fed White House drivel, we're more than happy to look back at what you said 6-7 years ago, when this was first jammed through Congress, to see if it's consistent.

The goal of the PPACA was to increase health care coverage, not cover everybody. For example, illegal immigrants were specifically left out of the equation by the law. Plus, you didn't have to get coverage. You could simply pay the fine.

Also, the goal was to slow down cost increases in total on health care vs the expectations at the time. Again, success on this point but I'm still not sure what a dildo bird is as hovey mentioned so I can't assess if the ACA has gone the way of one....

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Look, the great myth of Obamacare is that it was going to have two great results -- we were going to get everyone covered by health insurance and we were going to lower the cost of health insurance/health care (revisionist history later changed this to "we're going to slow the rate of growth of health insurance/health care costs).

I've highlighted 3 blatant lies in your post,

As advocates said before, during, and after the law passed - any tweaks to make it work better are totally welcome. But, I wrote out here during the discussion that there's two ways to judge the law's success. 1) Do more people have insurance, 2) did the cost curve bend, as in total payouts are less than expected payouts. Check and check.

.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Shouldn't any health care initiative also be judged on how long its users are living?

Americans Are Dying Faster. Millennials, Too

[SJHovey]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

The goal of the PPACA was to increase health care coverage, not cover everybody. For example, illegal immigrants were specifically left out of the equation by the law. Plus, you didn't have to get coverage. You could simply pay the fine.

Also, the goal was to slow down cost increases in total on health care vs the expectations at the time. Again, success on this point but I'm still not sure what a dildo bird is as hovey mentioned so I can't assess if the ACA has gone the way of one....

The point is even the Admin is admitting this isn't working. Getting a load of new people into insurance, only to drive them off (and a bunch of people who were already insured before the law) because of premium costs that dwarf anything we ever saw before the law is passed is a great success.

Go ahead and just admit it Rover. It'll be cathartic for you. Right now the ACA is a giant turd in the White House restroom that Obama is leaving there for your girl to find in January. We'll see if she can figure it out.

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Shouldn't any health care initiative also be judged on how long its users are living?

Americans Are Dying Faster. Millennials, Too

That could be the stupidest thing you've ever posted, and that's saying something.

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Look, the great myth of Obamacare is that it was going to have two great results -- we were going to get everyone covered by health insurance and we were going to lower the cost of health insurance/health care (revisionist history later changed this to "we're going to slow the rate of growth of health insurance/health care costs).

Here is the problem. A huge portion of the American public was already covered, either through Medicare/Medicaid or through employer sponsored policies. That really hasn't changed as a result of Obamacare.

In the short term did we add more people to the coverage lists. No question. Did we reduce health insurance/health care costs in the short term? There is an argument that we slowed the cost increases in the first year or so, but I think we all see now that is primarily a result of insurance companies guessing at what the rates should be based upon unknown factors created by Obamacare. Once they realized they guessed wrong, the slowed growth victory is going the way of the dildo bird. These 50% annual increases are going to quickly drive those newly covered individuals back off the insurance rolls, and probably take a few more people with them. Which is great. Now, they're not only uninsured but they're breaking the law on top of it.

The next argument perpetrated by the sheeple goes something like, "if the GOP can't come up with a solution for fixing Obamacare, they need to stop whining about it."

Except, the problem is that Obamacare is precisely like the Iraq/Afghan war problem. It his a huge s h ! t pie, and it's not something we can just say, "nevermind" and pretend like we never created it. Pulling all of our troops out of the middle east and simply repealing Obamacare are both incredibly stupid ideas. But the fact that we can't do those things certainly doesn't minimize or relieve responsibility for the lies and misinformation that got us into both messes.

The dildo bird?

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

The point is even the Admin is admitting this isn't working. Getting a load of new people into insurance, only to drive them off (and a bunch of people who were already insured before the law) because of premium costs that dwarf anything we ever saw before the law is passed is a great success.

Go ahead and just admit it Rover. It'll be cathartic for you. Right now the ACA is a giant turd in the White House restroom that Obama is leaving there for your girl to find in January. We'll see if she can figure it out.

Still waiting about the "dildo bird" question.

Are more people covered now than before the law was passed? Did you just say "yes"? You did if you were honest. So, how is it driving people off of insurance if more are covered? That...doesn't...make....sense....

Regarding premiums, given that we had a 2% and 7% jump up in the previous 2 years that mitigates the total increase over time. The part the law needs to fix is people getting insurance during the special enrollment periods in order to cover known health problems that they decided to address. Were the GOP Congress not in a permanent state of constipation that's not too hard to do.

Lastly, I'll remind you once again that the ACA was never meant to get older conservative males laid for the first time in decades, so any frustrations of that nature really need to be directed elsewhere.