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The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

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  • #586
    Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    That is a bit misleading because you are not correlating cost to quality.


    To some extent, parts of healthcare are a luxury item: in other countries, you have a hip problem, you get a cortisone shot and a bottle of advil. Here, you get a hip replacement. The latter is much more expensive than the former, but if it was your hip and you had the money available, which would you choose?


    People complain that healthcare is too expensive yet wail and gnash their teeth when you try to restrict usage, which is how the governments in single-payor plans reduce costs.

    It is a phantom reduction: maybe the cost in dollars goes down, the real cost is incurred through waiting longer to see someone and suffering much more in the interim.
    If you need a hip replacement in Sweden you get it, not a shot of cortisone and some advil. They spend less than half as much per capita for healthcare. You might have a to wait a couple months, since part of having an efficient system is not having costly excess capacity for non-life saving services. But guess what, you'd likely have to wait a couple months here too depending on where you live and who your insurance company will let you see.

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    • #587
      Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      You people all need to move to civilization or something. In the state with the highest % of people covered I never have to wait long at all to be seen. One time I broke my elbow on a Saturday night (unknown to me at the time) and I got seen the following day (Sunday) at the doctor's office.
      Well as a physician who makes daily referrals to almost every specialty one could think of in both a private and "public" (VA) system, that is not always the case. And this is in Cleveland which is somewhat of a doctor hotspot with three major systems (CCF, University hospitals and Metro) and a top notch VA.
      In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher'.

      Originally posted by burd
      I look at some people and I just know they do it doggy style. No way they're getting close to my kids.

      Comment

      • #588
        Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

        Originally posted by WisconsinWildcard View Post
        Well as a physician who makes daily referrals to almost every specialty one could think of in both a private and "public" (VA) system, that is not always the case. And this is in Cleveland which is somewhat of a doctor hotspot with three major systems (CCF, University hospitals and Metro) and a top notch VA.
        It's hopeless arguing from a position of authority with Rover. You could be the top surgeon in the United States, and he would dispute any unfavorable stats you claim.

        Comment

        • #589
          Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

          Originally posted by WisconsinWildcard View Post
          Well as a physician who makes daily referrals to almost every specialty one could think of in both a private and "public" (VA) system, that is not always the case. And this is in Cleveland which is somewhat of a doctor hotspot with three major systems (CCF, University hospitals and Metro) and a top notch VA.
          I wouldn't think that it is. My point is somehow it seems the Boston metro area has figured out how to get people seen on a timely basis. Why that is I'll defer to the experts as well as if certain areas of the country are better at this than others. I could see a connection between how densely populated an area is and how a patient could be seen more quickly.
          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

          Comment

          • #590
            Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

            Originally posted by Rover View Post
            I wouldn't think that it is. My point is somehow it seems the Boston metro area has figured out how to get people seen on a timely basis. Why that is I'll defer to the experts as well as if certain areas of the country are better at this than others. I could see a connection between how densely populated an area is and how a patient could be seen more quickly.
            There's no problem in NYC or the DC metro area, either. Large cities --> lucrative practices --> too many doctors --> tons of choices --> short wait times. When I lived in Oregon I paid really close attention to the "in market" restrictions on my insurance. In DC I don't give a sh-t, there's always 20,000 doctors in market for anything I could possibly come down with.

            You probably see the same effect in everything from building contractors to travel agents*.

            * Are there still travel agents?
            Cornell University
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            • #591
              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              You probably see the same effect in everything from building contractors to travel agents*.

              * Are there still travel agents?
              For rich people, and (to an extent) corporate travelers like me, yes. For the rich, they act more like concierges though and book everything, not just transportation and accommodations. For us corpies, sometimes they can get you rebooked on flights that your gate agent can't.

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              • #592
                Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                The PPACA and UND Grad Students:
                https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entr...nce-next-week/
                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                North Dakota Hockey:

                Comment

                • #593
                  Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                  Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                  The PPACA and UND Grad Students:
                  https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entr...nce-next-week/
                  Can't they go on their parents plan up to age 26?
                  Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                  Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                  "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                  Comment

                  • #594
                    Originally posted by Rover View Post
                    Can't they go on their parents plan up to age 26?
                    Doctoral candidates may be overage?? What if they were married???
                    CCT '77 & '78
                    4 kids
                    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                    • #595
                      Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                      Originally posted by Rover View Post
                      You people all need to move to civilization or something. In the state with the highest % of people covered I never have to wait long at all to be seen. One time I broke my elbow on a Saturday night (unknown to me at the time) and I got seen the following day (Sunday) at the doctor's office.
                      Undoubtedly broken while patting yourself on the back.

                      This points out one of the fundamental problem of the ACA. Problems need to be solved at the lowest level possible. In the case of health care and health insurance, that's at a state level, at the highest.

                      I'm sure in NYC or Boston or any other eastern metropolitan market there are a plethora of choices for health care, no waits, and plenty of options for health insurance providers. Out here, where we like a little more space, that's not the case.
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                      Comment

                      • #596
                        Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                        I'm sure in NYC or Boston or any other eastern metropolitan market there are a plethora of choices for health care, no waits, and plenty of options for health insurance providers. Out here, where we like a little more space, that's not the case.
                        You're in the upper Midwest right? You can get ordinary health care for ordinary health issues anywhere. For serious health issues, Rochester is the final word.
                        Go Gophers!

                        Comment

                        • #597
                          Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                          Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                          You're in the upper Midwest right? You can get ordinary health care for ordinary health issues anywhere. For serious health issues, Rochester is the final word.
                          Rochester is also at lease five hours from those in Fargo, add on another 60-90 minutes of drive time to those in Grand Forks. Is that realistically attainable for everyone one in the Midwest? No, it is not.
                          "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                          "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                          "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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                          • #598
                            Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                            Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                            Rochester is also at lease five hours from those in Fargo, add on another 60-90 minutes of drive time to those in Grand Forks. Is that realistically attainable for everyone one in the Midwest? No, it is not.
                            If you can't be bothered to drive 6 hours for a specialist, its not serious.

                            Hovey, just to put it in perspective...Mayo's US (i.e., worldwide) ranking this year:

                            Cancer #3
                            Cardiology & Heart Surgery #2
                            Diabetes & Endocrinology #1
                            Ear, Nose & Throat #2
                            Gastroenterology & GI Surgery #1
                            Geriatrics #1
                            Gynecology #1
                            Nephrology #1
                            Neurology & Neurosurgery #1
                            Orthopedics #2
                            Psychiatry #8
                            Pulmonology #1
                            Rehabilitation #6
                            Rheumatology #4
                            Urology #1
                            Go Gophers!

                            Comment

                            • #599
                              Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                              Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                              If you can't be bothered to drive 6 hours for a specialist, its not serious.

                              Hovey, just to put it in perspective...Mayo's US (i.e., worldwide) ranking this year:

                              Cancer #3
                              Cardiology & Heart Surgery #2
                              Diabetes & Endocrinology #1
                              Ear, Nose & Throat #2
                              Gastroenterology & GI Surgery #1
                              Geriatrics #1
                              Gynecology #1
                              Nephrology #1
                              Neurology & Neurosurgery #1
                              Orthopedics #2
                              Psychiatry #8
                              Pulmonology #1
                              Rehabilitation #6
                              Rheumatology #4
                              Urology #1
                              Yes, we know. Minnesota is the closest thing to Heaven on earth. Sunshine, rainbows, and lakes. No poverty. Healthcare sent by God himself.

                              Christ, the state gov't should just hire you as the chief PR guy already.

                              Comment

                              • #600
                                Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                                Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                                Yes, we know. Minnesota is the closest thing to Heaven on earth. Sunshine, rainbows, and lakes. No poverty. Healthcare sent by God himself.

                                Christ, the state gov't should just hire you as the chief PR guy already.
                                Have we had a chance to discuss Riga?
                                Go Gophers!

                                Comment

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