Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 67
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 67 template Next
  • #496
    Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

    Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Exchanges allow for capitalism. Be great if all service markets used exchanges.
    No, they don't. You really don't understand what capitalism is. If there's legally enforced participation in a specific market, it's not capitalism. It's that plain, and that simple. You're completely misusing the term.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

    Comment

    • #497
      Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

      Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
      No, they don't. You really don't understand what capitalism is. If there's legally enforced participation in a specific market, it's not capitalism. It's that plain, and that simple. You're completely misusing the term.
      Like anyone really has a choice whether or not they purchase health care of some sort. Or get it for free. Everyone has to have it. It'd be like not participating in the food market. Or water market.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

      Comment

      • #498
        Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
        Like anyone really has a choice whether or not they purchase health care of some sort.
        Until a couple years ago the average participant in the healthcare sector did. Then it was capitalism. Now it's a mixed economy, some choices that are limited by way of compulsory government edict.
        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

        Comment

        • #499
          Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
          Until a couple years ago the average participant in the healthcare sector did. Then it was capitalism. Now it's a mixed economy, some choices that are limited by way of compulsory government edict.
          Meh. Just another reason to shove all the funding to the general fund. I don't get to opt out of the 90% of our defense spending that's pure corporate graft, either. If you object to it strenuously you can always run as a candidate who will exclude it from the budget and vaya con Dios.

          Capitalism fails when it's scoped to activities which take a net loss. Covering poor people's health care takes a net loss. So the choices are, you can be an Objectivist college sophomore and conclude that means poor people should be left to sicken and die, or you can say welp that sucks but it's the price of civilization and cover them. And who covers them? People who can afford it.
          Last edited by Kepler; 11-20-2015, 10:43 AM.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

          Comment

          • #500
            Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Meh. Just another reason to shove all the funding to the general fund. I don't get to opt out of the 90% of our defense spending that's pure corporate graft, either. If you object to it strenuously you can always run as a candidate who will exclude it from the budget and vaya con Dios.

            Capitalism fails when it's scoped to activities which take a net loss. Covering poor people's health care takes a net loss. So the choices are, you can be an Objectivist college sophomore and conclude that means poor people should be left to sicken and die, or you can say welp that sucks but it's the price of civilization and cover them. And who covers them? People who can afford it.
            Yeah, the problem is capitalism really created the healthcare mess we're in.

            If it was like food or water or other necessities, you'd just buy it directly from the vendor. If you're poor or can't afford it, you'd look to a government program to provide you with assistance, and hope that society sees it's way clear to adopt such a program. If we'd gone in that direction, I bet the cost of various medical services would look substantially different today.

            But somewhere along the line a smart businessman concluded he could make a buck by taking on some of the risk previously borne by individuals, in exchange for a small fee, or "premium". And from there it exploded out of control.
            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

            Comment

            • #501
              Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
              Yeah, the problem is capitalism really created the healthcare mess we're in.

              If it was like food or water or other necessities, you'd just buy it directly from the vendor. If you're poor or can't afford it, you'd look to a government program to provide you with assistance, and hope that society sees it's way clear to adopt such a program. If we'd gone in that direction, I bet the cost of various medical services would look substantially different today.

              But somewhere along the line a smart businessman concluded he could make a buck by taking on some of the risk previously borne by individuals, in exchange for a small fee, or "premium". And from there it exploded out of control.
              You just described all insurance. And it's pretty hard to justify gambling without it. Life insurance, just in case. Medical insurance. Car insurance. Homeowner's insurance. Social Security. Medicare. Long and Short Term disability.

              By the time you get done setting things up so if anything bad happens you don't lose everything you've got nothing left.
              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

              Comment

              • #502
                Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                No, they don't. You really don't understand what capitalism is. If there's legally enforced participation in a specific market, it's not capitalism. It's that plain, and that simple. You're completely misusing the term.
                When one spends more time telling others they don't understand a concept...but can't explain it themselves. You know they're over their head.

                So how is exchange participation 'legally enforced' if UHG can pull out?
                Go Gophers!

                Comment

                • #503
                  Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                  Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                  When one spends more time telling others they don't understand a concept...but can't explain it themselves. You know they're over their head.

                  So how is exchange participation 'legally enforced' if UHG can pull out?
                  No, we're legally enforced to participate. Has nothing to do with UHG. UHG doesn't even have to exist.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                  Comment

                  • #504
                    Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                    No, we're legally enforced to participate. Has nothing to do with UHG. UHG doesn't even have to exist.
                    As Scooby said, the suppliers have discretion in participating in the exchanges, we the consumers do not have that discretion. We either get coverage through our employers, go through the exchanges, or get taxed/penalized for non-compliance through the tax code.
                    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                    Comment

                    • #505
                      Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                      Scooby's arguing past the whole discussion. Here you said open participation in exchanges was not capitalistic. Now I have no idea what you believe.

                      Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                      Exchanges allow for capitalism. Be great if all service markets used exchanges.
                      Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                      No, they don't.
                      Go Gophers!

                      Comment

                      • #506
                        Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                        Maybe one of those stray bullets on 394 hit 5mn because he has no idea what he is arguing.

                        Because we are forced into participation it is not capitalism. Just because the companies have the choice doesnt change anything. This isnt advanced economics, buy a 7th grade Econ book and you should be able to figure it out.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment

                        • #507
                          Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                          Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                          Scooby's arguing past the whole discussion. Here you said open participation in exchanges was not capitalistic. Now I have no idea what you believe.
                          You're correct. I have no idea what I'm talking about.
                          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                          Comment

                          • #508
                            Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                            Y'all as missing a highly important aspect to all this.

                            Nobody really knows what it costs. To them.

                            Mookie's had health insurance all his life. To him a dr cost $50. Drugs $30.

                            Co-pay though as we know it is leaving the barn. Now Mookie has to pay "co-insurance" after forking out $3k until he hits $6k every calendar year.

                            As a consumer Mookie has no idea when that occurs now. February?
                            July?
                            October?

                            What do Mookie's drugs cost? $30?

                            Come January is that now $300? Or $500? Or $20?

                            In February Mookie has a dr visit that will cost what? $1k?

                            and mookie ain't in this boat alone....

                            Brave new world
                            a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                            Comment

                            • #509
                              Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              Because we are forced into participation it is not capitalism. Just because the companies have the choice doesnt change anything. This isnt advanced economics, buy a 7th grade Econ book and you should be able to figure it out.
                              Originally posted by MNsure View Post
                              MNsure is Minnesota's marketplace where where individuals, families and small businesses can shop.
                              Not must shop...

                              Originally posted by United Healthcare View Post
                              “We are evaluating the viability of the insurance exchange product category for us and will determine during the first half of 2016 the extent to which we can continue to serve the public exchange markets in 2017,”
                              Not must participate...

                              You really can't be this dense.
                              Go Gophers!

                              Comment

                              • #510
                                Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

                                Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                                Not must shop...



                                Not must participate...

                                You really can't be this dense.
                                You are the one having the wrong conversation. Due to PPACA, we are all forced to participate in the health care market in one of 3 main ways (I'm sure there are others): purchase of private health care insurance (as through an employer-sponsored plan), shopping on a health care exchange such as MNSure, or paying a Federal Tax. You're right that nobody is forced to pick any particular one of these 3 options, so it's accurate to say that people *can* shop at MNSure. However, it's inaccurate to say that people are not required to participate in the health care coverage market in general.

                                See the all those trees? They make up a forest.
                                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                                Comment

                                Previous 1 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 67 template Next
                                Working...
                                X