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The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

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  • Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
    It's beyond that. It's somehow managing to commit to spending more money via your credit card than your max limit, than hoping that your max limit always gets increased to match the next increment of spending that you don't have to spend to begin with. If the federal government had a responsible bone in its body we wouldn't be talking about raising the debt limit seemingly almost all the time to begin with. It's kinda like driving recklessly without your seat belt on and getting mad at the seat belt indicator for beeping at you to put on your seat belt. Only in the beltway can stuff like this get so twisted around. Just like how the feds talk about not getting as big of an increase in a given piece of the budget as they had asked for as having their funding cut. First time I heard that one I really had a hard time believing people were so disingenuous and other people would buy it. It's much easier to believe now.
    I hate household analogies because the federal government is not a household and should not be treated as though it were one, but I'll stick with it for ease of conversation.

    The debt ceiling is not a product of the credit card company in this situation, it's the holder of the card himself. This is Joe Blow saying "Even though I racked up $X in bills, I personally pledged to myself I'd only pay off $Y. Should I change Y to be greater than X or go into default and really screw myself over?"

    The debt ceiling is the U.S. government saying we've spent X, but we're only allowing ourselves to pay back Y amount.

    The credit card company in this analogy are the bond markets. If we were actually near our credit limit, the interest rates on our t-bills and bonds wouldbe skyrocketing. That hasn't happened, which means we're not actually anywhere near our credit limit.
    Last edited by unofan; 10-09-2015, 12:54 PM.

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    • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

      The debt ceiling itself should be abolished, BTW. There's a reason no other country has one, because it's duplicative of the budgeting process. It's historically been a tool for the minority party to get some cheap talking points (see any debt ceiling debate pre 2009). Now it's a way for a minority part of one party to hold the entire country hostage because they're farking power hungry douchbags who don't believe in responsible governance.

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      • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

        Originally posted by unofan View Post
        The credit card company in this analogy are the bond markets. If we were actually near our credit limit, the interest rates on our t-bills and bonds wouldbe skyrocketing. That hasn't happened, which means we're not actually anywhere near our credit limit.
        We had also actually also managed to haul spending in before the Dubya Depression. This despite the fact that our legacy obligations were growing all the while with the aging of the Boomers.

        We can actually recover fairly quickly if we recapture the revenue we've been bleeding away to the rich ever since 1980, means-test future entitlements to turn them back into insurance programs, and dismantle the empire and its trillion or so dollars per year of corporate welfare. Once we start running surpluses we can pay down the debt and be back to a historically normal debt percentage of GNP within a few decades.

        Or we can keep trying to put the laws of economics up for a vote.
        Last edited by Kepler; 10-09-2015, 01:07 PM.
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        • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          Great piece that will get Rover's seal of approval.
          An A+ effort. Well done. There's only one thing I like seeing better than humiliated conservatives, and that's humiliated pundits.
          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

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          • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

            The debt limit is only an issue to the extent our federal government can't keep itself from spending money we don't have to spend. If they spent within this nation's means, the debt limit would never be an issue (and could arguably not be needed). Another analogy could be putting on of the breathalyzer things on your car's admission after you've been repeatedly caught driving drunk and you get mad at the breathalyzer not letting your start your car instead of not engaging in the irresponsible behavior that required the breathalyzer by installed and that it kicks in when you again don't act responsibly. When people complain about having a debt limit, it just tells me they have little interest in having a fiscally responsible and long term financially viable nation.
            Originally posted by Priceless
            Good to see you're so reasonable.
            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
            Very well, said.
            Originally posted by Rover
            A fair assessment Bob.

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            • Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
              The debt limit is only an issue to the extent our federal government can't keep itself from spending money we don't have to spend. If they spent within this nation's means, the debt limit would never be an issue (and could arguably not be needed). Another analogy could be putting on of the breathalyzer things on your car's admission after you've been repeatedly caught driving drunk and you get mad at the breathalyzer not letting your start your car instead of not engaging in the irresponsible behavior that required the breathalyzer by installed and that it kicks in when you again don't act responsibly. When people complain about having a debt limit, it just tells me they have little interest in having a fiscally responsible and long term financially viable nation.
              You can repeat this analogy as much as you want, Bob. You're still wrong and show a lack of understanding of what the debt ceiling actually is.

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              • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                Moving on from the scintillating debt ceiling discussion, another good article. This one by a wingnut!

                http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...gop-213232?o=0
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                  Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                  The debt limit is only an issue to the extent our federal government can't keep itself from spending money we don't have to spend. If they spent within this nation's means, the debt limit would never be an issue (and could arguably not be needed). Another analogy could be putting on of the breathalyzer things on your car's admission after you've been repeatedly caught driving drunk and you get mad at the breathalyzer not letting your start your car instead of not engaging in the irresponsible behavior that required the breathalyzer by installed and that it kicks in when you again don't act responsibly. When people complain about having a debt limit, it just tells me they have little interest in having a fiscally responsible and long term financially viable nation.
                  And to address the one comment someone had about the bond rates: Said rates have been kept artificially low for quite a long time. Why? Same reason the Federal Reserve intentionally creates inflation: Money movement. They don't want to reward people who have capital. It's been happening for a long time. Yes, I understand that every transaction must have a buyer and a seller. Take a look at what the seller wants, though, and manipulates 401(k)s to force them into treasuries (happened to some SSA workers a while back, if you recall). If the market truly had a 100% say, bond rates would be double digits and we would see stagflation.

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                  • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                    It's like the Nightmare Before Christmas.

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                    • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      We had also actually also managed to haul spending in before the Dubya Depression. This despite the fact that our legacy obligations were growing all the while with the aging of the Boomers.
                      Last I checked, when you commies had the House and Senate, by-the-year deficit went up from where it was previously.

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                      • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Great piece that will get Rover's seal of approval.
                        *** nailed it!
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                        • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                          It does not surprise me that a party run by elite businessmen failed to follow rule #1 for the maintenance of your health and safety: Recognize who the stupid people are and put as much distance as possible between them and you.
                          Last edited by Jimjamesak; 10-10-2015, 01:44 PM.
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                          • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                            As bad as it is now, it is not as bad as it was in 1672.
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                            • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              Now that is kickin' it old school.

                              Closest we've come.
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                              • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                                Pat on why Paul Ryan should say no.

                                http://m.townhall.com/columnists/pat...-paul-n2064855
                                CCT '77 & '78
                                4 kids
                                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                                - Benjamin Franklin

                                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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