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The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

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  • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

    Let's hope this one actually happens. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...bill/1466/text

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    • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
      Let's hope this one actually happens. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...bill/1466/text
      Good luck to him. (It's obviously going nowhere, but we can dream about being a free people again someday.)
      Cornell University
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      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Good luck to him. (It's obviously going nowhere, but we can dream about being a free people again someday.)
        Needs a high profile R co sponsor to get off the mat. Even if it did pass through Congress, do you think any President would sign it?

        Bernie?
        CCT '77 & '78
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        • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

          Originally posted by joecct View Post
          Needs a high profile R co sponsor to get off the mat. Even if it did pass through Congress, do you think any President would sign it?

          Bernie?
          I predict a pocket veto if it gets that far.

          Comment


          • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Good luck to him. (It's obviously going nowhere, but we can dream about being a free people again someday.)
            "You'll see that better future, Matt... but it ain't for the likes of us." -Jim Raynor, StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty

            (followed by an instrumental segment of my favorite hymn)

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            • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              Needs a high profile R co sponsor to get off the mat. Even if it did pass through Congress, do you think any President would sign it?

              Bernie?
              Obama would never sign it, which is one of the things I do not like about Obama.

              This is a great opportunity for a Liberal / Libertarian coalition to separate them from the traditional Dem / GOP lunkheads. But I'm still dreaming of an Occupy / Tea Party alliance, so don't mind me, I'll be off in the corner smoking crayons.
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              • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                Obama would never sign it, which is one of the things I do not like about Obama.

                This is a great opportunity for a Liberal / Libertarian coalition to separate them from the traditional Dem / GOP lunkheads. But I'm still dreaming of an Occupy / Tea Party alliance, so don't mind me, I'll be off in the corner smoking crayons.
                Hey, you never know. It happened when the country changed over from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Both sides have some halfway decent ideas; perhaps it's now time to pick and choose what can be executed and come up with something.

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                • Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                  Hey, you never know. It happened when the country changed over from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Both sides have some halfway decent ideas; perhaps it's now time to pick and choose what can be executed and come up with something.
                  what or who?
                  CCT '77 & '78
                  4 kids
                  5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                  1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                  ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                  - Benjamin Franklin

                  Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                  I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                  • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                    Originally posted by joecct View Post
                    what or who?
                    Depends on who you ask.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                      Hey, you never know. It happened when the country changed over from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Both sides have some halfway decent ideas; perhaps it's now time to pick and choose what can be executed and come up with something.
                      Can you imagine a Constitutional Convention under present circumstances?

                      I cannot envision a circumstance under which it would be better for the country to actually throw out and rewrite the Constitution, up to and including splitting into the two nations we always should have been. Better a thousand years of tyranny than one night with the current Congress rewriting the Constitution.
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                      • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Can you imagine a Constitutional Convention under present circumstances?

                        I cannot envision a circumstance under which it would be better for the country to actually throw out and rewrite the Constitution, up to and including splitting into the two nations we always should have been. Better a thousand years of tyranny than one night with the current Congress rewriting the Constitution.
                        I would say that the only thing they missed in the original drafting of the document was to establish a process for states to exit the union peacefully. That would've been helpful some 154 years ago.
                        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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                        • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                          I would say that the only thing they missed in the original drafting of the document was to establish a process for states to exit the union peacefully. That would've been helpful some 154 years ago.
                          Don't feel bad. The EU made the same oversight 130 years later.

                          IMO it should be simple -- a state referendum and if a simple majority favors it, you're gone. I'd also pass a law that a state that secedes can't be readmitted for some period (say, 20 years) to avoid churn.

                          The hardcore would leave*, and the guys who remain wouldn't be able to whine about "federal fascism" because they wake up and make their bed every day. It would really moderate rhetoric.

                          * Texas would be buh-bye before the ink was dry; talk about a win-win. Leave your nukes at the door on the way out, and good luck maintaining a first world economy with your faith-based educational system.
                          Last edited by Kepler; 03-26-2015, 10:33 AM.
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                          • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Don't feel bad. The EU made the same oversight 130 years later.

                            IMO it should be simple -- a state referendum and if a simple majority favors it, you're gone. I'd also pass a law that a state that secedes can't be readmitted for some period (say, 20 years) to avoid churn.

                            The hardcore would leave*, and the guys who remain wouldn't be able to whine about "federal fascism" because they wake up and make their bed every day. It would really moderate rhetoric.

                            * Texas would be buh-bye before the ink was dry; talk about a win-win. Leave your nukes at the door on the way out, and good luck maintaining a first world economy with your faith-based educational system.
                            That's a large part of it, but I was also thinking of things such as federal assets located in the state beyond things like portable military assets. Would that state have to pay back the feds for a dam project or various administration buildings before being able to exit the union or would there be a treaty of some sort to reclaim that property value?
                            "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                            "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                            "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                            Comment


                            • Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

                              Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                              That's a large part of it, but I was also thinking of things such as federal assets located in the state beyond things like portable military assets. Would that state have to pay back the feds for a dam project or various administration buildings before being able to exit the union or would there be a treaty of some sort to reclaim that property value?
                              I'm sure the lawsuits would stretch into the year 2525. There are precedents, like the breakup of Czechoslovakia.

                              (I have a feeling when the Russians annexed the Crimea the Ukrainian government lost any assets it had there. "Bill me.")

                              It would be extremely salutary to have an out clause in the Constitution, even if it were never exercised. It would really cut down on the crackers' irresponsible tub-thumping because put up or shut up.

                              Interesting discussion somewhat related here.
                              Last edited by Kepler; 03-26-2015, 10:54 AM.
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                              • Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                                That's a large part of it, but I was also thinking of things such as federal assets located in the state beyond things like portable military assets. Would that state have to pay back the feds for a dam project or various administration buildings before being able to exit the union or would there be a treaty of some sort to reclaim that property value?
                                And would New York have to pay for the cost of the St. Lawrence Seaway? Call it even on Feds developed projects.

                                But would the country split North / South as Kepler suggests, or would it split West / Central / South / East with central and south joining in one country and the coasts and the great lakes forming another?
                                Last edited by joecct; 03-26-2015, 10:55 AM.
                                CCT '77 & '78
                                4 kids
                                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                                - Benjamin Franklin

                                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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