The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Let's hope this one actually happens. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...bill/1466/text

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Let's hope this one actually happens. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...bill/1466/text

Good luck to him. (It's obviously going nowhere, but we can dream about being a free people again someday.)

[joecct]

Good luck to him. (It's obviously going nowhere, but we can dream about being a free people again someday.)

Needs a high profile R co sponsor to get off the mat. Even if it did pass through Congress, do you think any President would sign it?

Bernie?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Needs a high profile R co sponsor to get off the mat. Even if it did pass through Congress, do you think any President would sign it?

Bernie?

I predict a pocket veto if it gets that far.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Good luck to him. (It's obviously going nowhere, but we can dream about being a free people again someday.)

"You'll see that better future, Matt... but it ain't for the likes of us." -Jim Raynor, StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty

(followed by an instrumental segment of my favorite hymn)

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Needs a high profile R co sponsor to get off the mat. Even if it did pass through Congress, do you think any President would sign it?

Bernie?

Obama would never sign it, which is one of the things I do not like about Obama.

This is a great opportunity for a Liberal / Libertarian coalition to separate them from the traditional Dem / GOP lunkheads. But I'm still dreaming of an Occupy / Tea Party alliance, so don't mind me, I'll be off in the corner smoking crayons.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Obama would never sign it, which is one of the things I do not like about Obama.

This is a great opportunity for a Liberal / Libertarian coalition to separate them from the traditional Dem / GOP lunkheads. But I'm still dreaming of an Occupy / Tea Party alliance, so don't mind me, I'll be off in the corner smoking crayons.

Hey, you never know. It happened when the country changed over from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Both sides have some halfway decent ideas; perhaps it's now time to pick and choose what can be executed and come up with something.

[joecct]

Hey, you never know. It happened when the country changed over from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Both sides have some halfway decent ideas; perhaps it's now time to pick and choose what can be executed and come up with something.

what or who?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

what or who?

Depends on who you ask.

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Hey, you never know. It happened when the country changed over from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Both sides have some halfway decent ideas; perhaps it's now time to pick and choose what can be executed and come up with something.

Can you imagine a Constitutional Convention under present circumstances?

I cannot envision a circumstance under which it would be better for the country to actually throw out and rewrite the Constitution, up to and including splitting into the two nations we always should have been. Better a thousand years of tyranny than one night with the current Congress rewriting the Constitution.

[St. Clown]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Can you imagine a Constitutional Convention under present circumstances?

I cannot envision a circumstance under which it would be better for the country to actually throw out and rewrite the Constitution, up to and including splitting into the two nations we always should have been. Better a thousand years of tyranny than one night with the current Congress rewriting the Constitution.

I would say that the only thing they missed in the original drafting of the document was to establish a process for states to exit the union peacefully. That would've been helpful some 154 years ago.

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I would say that the only thing they missed in the original drafting of the document was to establish a process for states to exit the union peacefully. That would've been helpful some 154 years ago.

Don't feel bad. The EU made the same oversight 130 years later.

IMO it should be simple -- a state referendum and if a simple majority favors it, you're gone. I'd also pass a law that a state that secedes can't be readmitted for some period (say, 20 years) to avoid churn.

The hardcore would leave*, and the guys who remain wouldn't be able to whine about "federal fascism" because they wake up and make their bed every day. It would really moderate rhetoric.

* Texas would be buh-bye before the ink was dry; talk about a win-win. Leave your nukes at the door on the way out, and good luck maintaining a first world economy with your faith-based educational system.

[St. Clown]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Don't feel bad. The EU made the same oversight 130 years later.

IMO it should be simple -- a state referendum and if a simple majority favors it, you're gone. I'd also pass a law that a state that secedes can't be readmitted for some period (say, 20 years) to avoid churn.

The hardcore would leave*, and the guys who remain wouldn't be able to whine about "federal fascism" because they wake up and make their bed every day. It would really moderate rhetoric.

* Texas would be buh-bye before the ink was dry; talk about a win-win. Leave your nukes at the door on the way out, and good luck maintaining a first world economy with your faith-based educational system.

That's a large part of it, but I was also thinking of things such as federal assets located in the state beyond things like portable military assets. Would that state have to pay back the feds for a dam project or various administration buildings before being able to exit the union or would there be a treaty of some sort to reclaim that property value?

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

That's a large part of it, but I was also thinking of things such as federal assets located in the state beyond things like portable military assets. Would that state have to pay back the feds for a dam project or various administration buildings before being able to exit the union or would there be a treaty of some sort to reclaim that property value?

I'm sure the lawsuits would stretch into the year 2525. There are precedents, like the breakup of Czechoslovakia.

(I have a feeling when the Russians annexed the Crimea the Ukrainian government lost any assets it had there. "Bill me.")

It would be extremely salutary to have an out clause in the Constitution, even if it were never exercised. It would really cut down on the crackers' irresponsible tub-thumping because put up or shut up.

Interesting discussion somewhat related here.

[joecct]

That's a large part of it, but I was also thinking of things such as federal assets located in the state beyond things like portable military assets. Would that state have to pay back the feds for a dam project or various administration buildings before being able to exit the union or would there be a treaty of some sort to reclaim that property value?

And would New York have to pay for the cost of the St. Lawrence Seaway? Call it even on Feds developed projects.

But would the country split North / South as Kepler suggests, or would it split West / Central / South / East with central and south joining in one country and the coasts and the great lakes forming another?