The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

For Pete's sake, Flag, I wasn't ignoring it, IT'S THE CENTRAL POINT IN MY POST!!!

I understand what you're saying and it's true. But what Scoob said is also true. You have the parties switching their rhetoric just based on where they stand at the trough, so both are hypocritical. Why are you taking shots at people who are agreeing with you?

Because they willfully ignore the entire argument.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Because they willfully ignore the entire argument.

Oh, no. I willfully accept the entire argument. What I don't accept is how Harry Reid is vilified and the Slimy Turtle Itch is given a free pass. You should read back through my postings and find the one on Franken and what happened in the judiciary committee. Reid didn't run his caucus like Itch does.

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Because they willfully ignore the entire argument.

Well, I can only speak for myself. I'm not just addressing your argument, I'm broadening it. To repeat: I understand what you're saying and it's true -- Reid used it so if he now complains he's a hypocrite. But ALSO: Mitch bleated about it so if he now embraces it he's a hypocrite. We have both parties switching their rhetoric just based on where they stand at the trough, so both are hypocritical.

I personally think the filibuster and super-majority cloture and blue slips and anonymous holds should all be thrown in the dustbin of history. The way they are used isn't protecting minority rights, they allow a recalcitrant minority with no desire or plan to compromise AT ALL to gridlock the government completely. This is particular attractive to a small, radicalized group who believe the more they gum up the works the more their donors can get away with, so they actively attempt to sabotage the rule of law; but even were that not so, you have to have a system where eventually somebody can govern.

When parties were cross-matrixed with ideologies the system worked, but that's no longer the case because ideologies are now completely nationalized -- locality no longer has diversity. There are two solutions: either give the majority more power and let the minority stew, or split the country in half, and let the Eloi live in a country where Dems run against Liberals and the Morlocks run a country where the Republicans run against Libertarians.

(There's probably one other choice: break the two-party stranglehold and let a hundred parties bloom. If you do that you probably also have to get rid of the presidency and just have a prime minister. That to me is even more radical and less likely than a clean Czech/Slovak split.)

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Well, I can only speak for myself. I'm not just addressing your argument, I'm broadening it. To repeat: I understand what you're saying and it's true -- Reid used it so if he now complains he's a hypocrite. But ALSO: Mitch bleated about it so if he now embraces it he's a hypocrite. We have both parties switching their rhetoric just based on where they stand at the trough, so both are hypocritical.

I personally think the filibuster and super-majority cloture and blue slips and anonymous holds should all be thrown in the dustbin of history. The way they are used isn't protecting minority rights, they allow a recalcitrant minority with no desire or plan to compromise AT ALL to gridlock the government completely. This is particular attractive to a small, radicalized group who believe the more they gum up the works the more their donors can get away with, so they actively attempt to sabotage the rule of law; but even were that not so, you have to have a system where eventually somebody can govern.

When parties were cross-matrixed with ideologies the system worked, but that's no longer the case because ideologies are now completely nationalized -- locality no longer has diversity. There are two solutions: either give the majority more power and let the minority stew, or split the country in half, and let the Eloi live in a country where Dems run against Liberals and the Morlocks run a country where the Republicans run against Libertarians.

(There's probably one other choice: break the two-party stranglehold and let a hundred parties bloom. If you do that you probably also have to get rid of the presidency and just have a prime minister. That to me is even more radical and less likely than a clean Czech/Slovak split.)

True. Just as long as we all admit that the train really didn't get going until Obama became President. Bush II was able to actually execute an agenda, hire who he wanted to work, and Nancy Pelosi passed many bills that were signed. As soon as Obama took office then the party of "NO" came alive. And they're still saying "NO" even though they're in power. There is a special place in hell for the Bone Man and Itch, of that I have no doubt.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Well, I can only speak for myself. I'm not just addressing your argument, I'm broadening it. To repeat: I understand what you're saying and it's true -- Reid used it so if he now complains he's a hypocrite. But ALSO: Mitch bleated about it so if he now embraces it he's a hypocrite. We have both parties switching their rhetoric just based on where they stand at the trough, so both are hypocritical.

I personally think the filibuster and super-majority cloture and blue slips and anonymous holds should all be thrown in the dustbin of history. The way they are used isn't protecting minority rights, they allow a recalcitrant minority with no desire or plan to compromise AT ALL to gridlock the government completely. This is particular attractive to a small, radicalized group who believe the more they gum up the works the more their donors can get away with, so they attractive attempt to sabotage the rule of law; but even were that not so, you have to have a system where eventually a majority can govern.

When parties were cross-matrixed with ideologies the system worked, but that's no longer the case because ideologies are now completely nationalized -- locality no longer matters.

Perhaps it's a good reason to keep it around, though. Today in Congress, you have a number of prideful individuals whose practically only mission to get into history books, and they feel that the only way to do that is to do something. We have had more legislation jammed through in the last couple of decades than in a very long time. It fits with Mr. Day's warnings about how the NWO will be using "change" as a method of pushing their agenda.

To your point, we have also seen a broadening of federalism, and we have many federal statutes that are clear tenth amendment violations, but are pushed through funding loopholes, such as the 16th amendment and federal highways. Centralization causes failure when scope is broadened. It's exactly what happened to both the Roman Empire and the USSR. This is not to say, however, that we should make the same mistakes we made when the Articles of Confederation were in place. What would help this country the most is a greater push towards state autonomy.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

True. Just as long as we all admit that the train really didn't get going until Obama became President. Bush II was able to actually execute an agenda, hire who he wanted to work, and Nancy Pelosi passed many bills that were signed. As soon as Obama took office then the party of "NO" came alive. And they're still saying "NO" even though they're in power. There is a special place in hell for the Bone Man and Itch, of that I have no doubt.

I would recommend waiting a few months before laying judgement upon a single party being the party of "NO".

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Perhaps it's a good reason to keep it around, though. Today in Congress, you have a number of prideful individuals whose practically only mission to get into history books, and they feel that the only way to do that is to do something. We have had more legislation jammed through in the last couple of decades than in a very long time. It fits with Mr. Day's warnings about how the NWO will be using "change" as a method of pushing their agenda.

To your point, we have also seen a broadening of federalism, and we have many federal statutes that are clear tenth amendment violations, but are pushed through funding loopholes, such as the 16th amendment and federal highways. Centralization causes failure when scope is broadened. It's exactly what happened to both the Roman Empire and the USSR. This is not to say, however, that we should make the same mistakes we made when the Articles of Confederation were in place. What would help this country the most is a greater push towards state autonomy.

I don't agree at all, which is just another argument for a great Divorce. The Eloi can have a fully national system and entirely abolish the states. The Morlocks can have a Holy Roman Empire where the federal capitol (I assume in Dallas?) consists of 6 fileclerks and every state has its own DOD.

Write the two new constitutions and then have each state vote which of the three to join: the Old US, the New Union, or the New Confederacy.

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I would recommend waiting a few months before laying judgement upon a single party being the party of "NO".

Now see? Sometimes you write things that make sense.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I don't agree at all, which is just another argument for a great Divorce. The Eloi can have a fully national system and entirely abolish the states. The Morlocks can have a Holy Roman Empire where the federal capitol (I assume in Dallas?) consists of 6 fileclerks and every state has its own DOD.

Write the two new constitutions and then have each state vote which of the three to join: the Old US, the New Union, or the New Confederacy.

So long as the big government don't decide that they want to suddenly try to practically enslave the other states, like what happened the last time this sort of secession occurred.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Now see? Sometimes you write things that make sense.

And now you should understand Scooby's "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" mantra.

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

True. Just as long as we all admit that the train really didn't get going until Obama became President. Bush II was able to actually execute an agenda, hire who he wanted to work, and Nancy Pelosi passed many bills that were signed. As soon as Obama took office then the party of "NO" came alive. And they're still saying "NO" even though they're in power. There is a special place in hell for the Bone Man and Itch, of that I have no doubt.

I think the rot started to set in with Newt in 94. Prior to that, even at the country's prior nadir with Reagan, it was still possible to govern the entire country. But with Newt it became obvious that his party and 50% of the country no longer had any interest in rationality. The GOP has run ever since -- 20+ years now -- on pure spite and malice, and it's time to amputate them to save the healthy body.

We can revisit it in 2080 when everything south of 35 N Lat looks like Burkina Faso.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I think the rot started to set in with Newt in 94. Prior to that, even at the country's prior nadir with Reagan, it was still possible to govern the entire country. But with Newt it became obvious that his party and 50% of the country no longer had any interest in rationality. The GOP has run ever since -- 20+ years now -- on pure spite and malice, and it's time to amputate them to save the healthy body.

We can revisit it in 2080 when everything south of 35 N Lat looks like Burkina Faso.

The base problem is that one party thinks the Federal Government has a role and the other does not. Now I'm all for giving the States more power where it is warranted but it seems to me based on the list of national issues that we're talking about that every issue the GOP wants to fire back to the States belongs at the Federal Level. Immigration, Gay Marriage, Medical Choice, etc.

Meanwhile they had no problem militarizing our local police force.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

The base problem is that one party thinks the Federal Government has a role and the other does not. Now I'm all for giving the States more power where it is warranted but it seems to me based on the list of national issues that we're talking about that every issue the GOP wants to fire back to the States belongs at the Federal Level. Immigration, Gay Marriage, Medical Choice, etc.

Meanwhile they had no problem militarizing our local police force.

They may not have a direct role, but they certainly have an influence. Where do you think police forces get all their gear? Military surplus. Who do you think is pushing the "right wing extremists" agenda to the cops? Southern Poverty Law Center, as seen in Spokane WA. Where do they get the idea that these domestic terrorists can be above the law all they want and get away with it? The government media complex, not only in the form of news, but also entertainment.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I think the rot started to set in with Newt in 94. Prior to that, even at the country's prior nadir with Reagan, it was still possible to govern the entire country. But with Newt it became obvious that his party and 50% of the country no longer had any interest in rationality. The GOP has run ever since -- 20+ years now -- on pure spite and malice, and it's time to amputate them to save the healthy body.

We can revisit it in 2080 when everything south of 35 N Lat looks like Burkina Faso.

You post this kind of stuff and I ask myself, is this Kepler guy the reasonable guy he comes across as sometimes, or does he really believe the rabidly partisan stuff he posts sometimes. Puzzling.

[unofan]

Now see? Sometimes you write things that make sense.

A broken clock is also right twice per day. It's still broken, though.