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Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

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  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    This message brought to you by Dodge.
    thank you Mr. Pott!
    signed, Mr. Kettle.

    Leave a comment:


  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    I asked you what your ideas for dealing with ISIS were.
    despite your refusal to offer any useful ideas at all, here are mine.

    1) Tell the truth. ISIS is run by devout Islamists who believe in a variant of Islam that does not allow any other belief to exist other than theirs. STOP opining on what "is" or "is not" Islam, that is a debate for Muslims to settle among themselves. If you are not a Muslim, what authority do you have to opine anything other than to accept their words at face value?
    2) That being said, provide encouragement and support to Muslims who have spoken out clearly against the ISIS strain of Islam (e.g., Egypt's General al-Sisi).
    3) form a four-pronged international coalition. It will take "boots on the ground" and a long, sustained campaign, and it will take money, and it will take weapons and arms.
    -- Japan has a great reason to act against ISIS, ask them to put up substantial funds and technical support
    -- Jordan has a great reason to act against ISIS, provide them with meaningful weapons and effective air support
    -- Kurds have a great reason to act against ISIS, provide them with meaningful weapons and effective air support
    -- Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq have great reasons to act, encourage them to provide logistical and financial support
    4) US "boots on the ground" would be counter-productive, as well as politically unpopular: but Special Forces, air support, supplying weapons and intel would be valuable
    5) Europe is in similar position to US, get their financial support, Special Forces, weapons supply and intel as well.
    6) choke off ISIS' money flows: step up international efforts to find and confiscate their funds
    7) cut off ISIS supply lines, disrupt their ability to feed their troops and supply them with weapons
    8) provide protection and support for Muslim leaders who speak out against ISIS, help them withstand intimidation with beefed-up security
    9) stop giving Iran cover under which they can build all the parts of a nuclear weapon as long as they don't assemble them. That is just nonsense. Iran is happy to sponsor groups like ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., we need to put pressure on them, not cave to them as we've been doing.
    10) commit for the long run. a few months of token bombing runs are not going to cut it. It will take a long time and sustained hard work.
    11) get the Chinese on board: who will they have as trading partners if ISIS is successful? they too will benefit from a world without strife.


    The people most directly affected and most at risk should be in the front lines, but only the US has the power and the prestige to pull them all together in a coordinated and sustained manner.

    and most important of all, do not say one thing and then do another.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
    Likud insane? If you believe that, how do you view the people who run things across the Muslim world in the Middle East? They are certainly a lot further out there in many (if not most) cases than Likud!
    How is one related to the other?

    Insane to me is deliberately believing and doing stuff that will actually hurt you in the end, and, when presented with all the reasons this is so, continuing to do it. By that test, the fundy religious movements around the Middle East are all insane. I'm not sure the actual regimes are -- are the Saudis, for example, insane, or are they just sociopathic? I guess it depends on why they keep funneling all that money to Wahhabists. Are they exporting their crazies and distracting their people from their authoritarian rule, or do they rally believe that crap about the Invisible Imam?

    But Likud believes all their stuff -- they're the real thing. They are Dick Cheney's morals combined with Ollie North's pathetic tough guy act. I could easily imagine Likud staging a coup if they were removed from office to avoid an existential threat to Israel. Even the GOP won't go there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Gray
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Of course they will. The whole problem with Likud is their worldview puts Israel in greater danger. The non-insane portion of the Israeli public recognizes this, and in fact the only way Likud can even gin up a coalition these days is to invite their homegrown equivalent of Hamas into their government. Israeli Jews at the moment are about 40% sane, 30% politically insane, and 30% religiously insane. God knows what the Israeli Muslims are -- hiding in the attic, I guess. Israeli Jews are now where white male Americans were a decade ago -- there is a good portion who have functioning brain cells, but as a whole the demographic is still tipping Neanderthal.

    Israel is going to change. Even if their orthodox loons have 12 kids each, the only way they can keep this Dubyamulka coalition in power is to turn the country into an actual fascist regime, and that's not appealing to a westernized, educated Israeli public. You can only go full stupid when you have enormous reserves of herpa-derps, and in Israel even the politically crazy are educated and will stop short of that.
    Likud insane? If you believe that, how do you view the people who run things across the Muslim world in the Middle East? They are certainly a lot further out there in many (if not most) cases than Likud!

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    "At this point, what difference does it make?"

    What are your ideas, since you seem predisposed in advance to dismiss anything I might say, merely because I am the one saying it.
    Oh, FFS. I have watched you play this game with other posters here, so I don't know why I am bothering at this point.

    I asked you what your ideas for dealing with ISIS were. You ignored my question and instead selectively quoted my posts to express your opinion, twice, that Obama's actions weren't good enough. If you don't think Obama's plan is good enough, that's fine - it's your opinion. What I asked you is, what would you do differently to address the ISIS problem? Surprising as it may sound, I think I have made it fairly obvious over the past couple of years that I am not an Obama shill, so I might actually agree with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
    "At this point, what difference does it make?"

    What are your ideas, since you seem predisposed in advance to dismiss anything I might say, merely because I am the one saying it.
    This message brought to you by Dodge.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    It doesn't matter who is in power, Israel will do whatever it feels is necessary to defend itself.
    Of course they will. The whole problem with Likud is their worldview puts Israel in greater danger. The non-insane portion of the Israeli public recognizes this, and in fact the only way Likud can even gin up a coalition these days is to invite their homegrown equivalent of Hamas into their government. Israeli Jews at the moment are about 40% sane, 30% politically insane, and 30% religiously insane. God knows what the Israeli Muslims are -- hiding in the attic, I guess. Israeli Jews are now where white male Americans were a decade ago -- there is a good portion who have functioning brain cells, but as a whole the demographic is still tipping Neanderthal.

    Israel is going to change. Even if their orthodox loons have 12 kids each, the only way they can keep this Dubyamulka coalition in power is to turn the country into an actual fascist regime, and that's not appealing to a westernized, educated Israeli public. You can only go full stupid when you have enormous reserves of herpa-derps, and in Israel even the politically crazy are educated and will stop short of that.
    Last edited by Kepler; 02-26-2015, 02:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Don't dodge the question. Beyond acknowledging what their objectives are, do you have any specific ideas for dealing with ISIS? How are we supposed to know that your plan is any different or better than Obama's?
    "At this point, what difference does it make?"

    What are your ideas, since you seem predisposed in advance to dismiss anything I might say, merely because I am the one saying it.

    Leave a comment:


  • FreshFish
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
    I saw this article in The Atlantic, which sounds similar to the article you may be referencing. It's an important angle that this isn't just some crazy group of fanatics who don't have plans, goals, etc. While I don't agree with everything in the article, it was quite an interesting read and stuff like setting up the caliph was the kind of stuff that westerners don't seem to generally understand, but that seems to be very significant to the overall equation.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/
    Yes, thank you, that is exactly the one. It seems there is a reluctance in some circles to acknowledge that ISIS says what it believes and believes what it says.

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    It doesn't matter who is in power, Israel will do whatever it feels is necessary to defend itself. That doesn't mean the US is required to support the actions Israel takes, or isn't obligated to try and stop them from doing things that are drastic and disruptive to the affairs of the entire planet.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScoobyDoo
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    They know where their bread is buttered. Adelson barks "jump!" and they ask "how high"?

    Looks like there's a chance the Israelies might wake up and boot Bibi. I'm not sure whether the ZU is much better, but there won't be any chance at a peace accord with that cut rate Dick Cheney still running things.
    Yeah, well, he may get booted he may not. What I don't appreciate is that the Speaker of the House thinks he can run US foreign policy himself and do it by shipping the job overseas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    And here's John Kerry. Speaking truth to power.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/wo...vade-iraq.html

    I guess Itch and Boner have learned NOTHING the past 14 years.
    They know where their bread is buttered. Adelson barks "jump!" and they ask "how high"?

    Looks like there's a chance the Israelies might wake up and boot Bibi. I'm not sure whether the ZU is much better, but there won't be any chance at a peace accord with that cut rate Dick Cheney still running things.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScoobyDoo
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    And here's John Kerry. Speaking truth to power.
    Secretary of State John Kerry reminded Americans on Wednesday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, who is expected to denounce a potential nuclear deal with Iran during an address to Congress next week, also visited Washington in late 2002 to lobby for the invasion of Iraq.

    Apparently referring to testimony on the Middle East that Mr. Netanyahu delivered to Congress on Sept. 12, 2002, when he was a private citizen, Mr. Kerry told the House Foreign Affairs Committee, “The prime minister, as you will recall, was profoundly forward-leaning and outspoken about the importance of invading Iraq under George W. Bush, and we all know what happened with that decision.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/wo...vade-iraq.html

    I guess Itch and Boner have learned NOTHING the past 14 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    The Republicans operate on a grade school level. You're not going to get a grade schooler to understand what adults do and why they do it. All that impresses them is noise and violence.

    The only thing that has changed in the last 30 years is that disease has spread from talk radio (Rush syndicated in 1988) to the House (Newt majority in 1994) to the Senate (Lott majority in 1996) to the Presidency (Dubya's theft in 2000). The final breakthrough of the herpa-derps was the full court press of the Tea Party since 2008, but the GOP had ceased to be a party of thought 20 years prior to that.
    They're not the only ones. I recall seeing a study a few years ago about what level of education would be required in order to understand the State of the Union address. Obama's addresses were around the grade school level.

    The GOP is no different from the Dems; they're both fascists with the exact same agenda while feigning rivalry to divide the populace (also part of Dr. Day's warning). The real Taxed Enough Already party, which is much closer to libertarians than anything, has tried to reform the GOP (similar to reformation of the Whig party). However, as the old saying goes, "If you want to overthrow the king, you have to kill the king." The GOP, such as Itch, Boner, and the like, have hi-jacked said movements in order to push their agenda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kepler
    replied
    Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

    Originally posted by geezer View Post
    I actually admire Obama's rhetorical resistance to all enemies, foreign and domestic, in the interest of winning the real fight. He's a pretty tough dude not to give in by sinking to the Republicans' level.
    The Republicans operate on a grade school level. You're not going to get a grade schooler to understand what adults do and why they do it. All that impresses them is noise and violence.

    The only thing that has changed in the last 30 years is that disease has spread from talk radio (Rush syndicated in 1988) to the House (Newt majority in 1994) to the Senate (Lott majority in 1996) to the Presidency (Dubya's theft in 2000). The final breakthrough of the herpa-derps was the full court press of the Tea Party since 2008, but the GOP had ceased to be a party of thought 20 years prior to that.
    Last edited by Kepler; 02-26-2015, 09:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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