Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

[burd]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

A woman mayor of Baghdad. Even if she's a figurehead (and I'm not aware of evidence that she is), that has to be a sign of progress. Now if they will just elect or appoint a woman mayor of Kabul.

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

I'm going to (unbidden) try and make the best case for solovsfett. The guys with tanks and RPGs in Syria are no physical threat to, say, France. However, France does have a very large, very p1ssed off Islamic minority, and young males with no job and no future in large numbers are always a-holes. If IS or ISIS or ISIL or Da'ish or whatever they're called this week stay in the news burning people alive and crucifying children, the Parisian authorities may find themselves with a "monkey see, monkey do" problem.

Imagine, for example, what would happen if a large portion of the American black community woke up one morning and said, "400 years of this sh1t is enough -- let's burn whitey's house," and then proceeded to do that as efficiently and effectively as they could, with whitey inevitably returning the favor. We know what ethno-religious civil wars look like -- we've seen Kosovo and Rwanda. Even if/when the army finally restores order, there are neatly stacked piles of bodies and limbs everywhere. It's really an eyesore.

So that's what solovsfett may be talking about. Throw radicalizing religious fanatics into a ghettoized, poor, uneducated population, and the sky's the limit for the trouble they can gin up. The best you can hope for is Mississippi; the worst is about as close to an existential threat as western countries are likely to face.

Nope. He believes that the armies of ISIS are going to overrun Europe...and even if he does somehow believe what you say I dont buy that either. Too many of the oppressed fundamentalists in Europe are choosing to leave and head to Syria to fight. Even if they all stayed the civil war that could possibly (and most likely never going to) happen would be put down rather easily. It is one thing to suicide bomb unsuspecting victims when you all look similar, but if whitey gets paranoid and the fundamentalists start killing them it will open season on the Muslims. This wont be the war in Iraq, this will be a slaughter, the Muslims will be the new jews, rounded up and "put to work".

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

A woman mayor of Baghdad. Even if she's a figurehead (and I'm not aware of evidence that she is), that has to be a sign of progress. Now if they will just elect or appoint a woman mayor of Kabul.

Hey, Pakistan's had two female heads of state, and IIRC Iran has twice the percentage of women in its legislature as the US.

[burd]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Hey, Pakistan's had two female heads of state, and IIRC Iran has twice the percentage of women in its legislature as the US.

That's right--Benazir Bhutto et al.

Guess I should have said Birmingham

[busterman62]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Nope. He believes that the armies of ISIS are going to overrun Europe...and even if he does somehow believe what you say I dont buy that either. Too many of the oppressed fundamentalists in Europe are choosing to leave and head to Syria to fight. Even if they all stayed the civil war that could possibly (and most likely never going to) happen would be put down rather easily. It is one thing to suicide bomb unsuspecting victims when you all look similar, but if whitey gets paranoid and the fundamentalists start killing them it will open season on the Muslims. This wont be the war in Iraq, this will be a slaughter, the Muslims will be the new jews, rounded up and "put to work".

Arbeit macht frei

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Here's what ticks me off.

Listening to the pundits this morning and they're blaming the US for not getting involved soon enough to stop ISIS. Now where exactly is ISIS gathering power? Iraq and Syria. Last time I checked neither of those two countries are the United States, or border the United States.

We're not everyone else's army. That needs to STOP. Now. And given who the next President is likely to be (either side) it's not going to. You can't stop being everybody's army if you keep fighting everyone else's battles.

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

We're not everyone else's army. That needs to STOP. Now. And given who the next President is likely to be (either side) it's not going to. You can't stop being everybody's army if you keep fighting everyone else's battles.

That business is very lucrative for the folks who really run things. It's not a bug, it's a feature, and it's not going to stop as long as money decides elections.

As you allude to, the presumptive nominees of both parties are going to be 100x worse than Obama when it comes to monetizing American soldiers' and international civilians' lives to fatten their cronies' bank accounts.

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

This wont be the war in Iraq, this will be a slaughter, the Muslims will be the new jews, rounded up and "put to work".

We are writing to notify you that your unlawful copying of the GOP Platform infringes upon our client’s exclusive copyrights...

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Hey, whaddya know, turns out Bibi is every bit the lying POS his BFF Dubya was.

[solovsfett]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

How else are they going to get straight from Libya to Italy (perhaps by way of Cyprus)? Because if you think they're going to get to France and/or Spain in 2 years by going the land route through Turkey and the Balkans and Germany and the Alps, then you're really nuts.

How did AQ arrive in the U.S. to take out 3,000 people? How did the arrive in Bali? How did ISIS move to Libya? The answers to those questions answer how they'll arrive in Italy

[FreshFish]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Here is a fantastic article about the theology that motivates ISIS:

some highlights:

Islam has no mechanism for excommunication....Even very bad Muslims are still Muslims as long as they haven't thrice publicly rejected the two testimonies...
....
[The ISIS] administration is run by highly educated individuals, many from wealthy families in Arab countries as well as Pakistan, Russia, China and Afghanistan
....
While humanity is not at war against Islam, a part of Islam is certainly at war against humanity

Paraphrase from a related article whose link I've misplaced.

ISIS is a brand of fundamentalism that is highly Islamic: their goal is to restore Islamic rule. They are killing Muslims as well as non-believers because to them, heresy / apostasy is a more serious sin than non-belief. They believe that terrorizing non-believers is merciful because it causes them to surrender more quickly, shortening the conflict and saving lives (assuming they then convert). Other Muslims are heretics because they believe in co-existence with non-believers.

To say that ISIS is "not Islam" is like saying "fundamentalist Christians" are "not Christian." To ISIS leaders, they are the only pure form of Islam that exists, and it is their sacred duty to impose Islamic law on the entire world.


Nothing will stop them except force. The more land they take over, the stronger they get. It is like gangrene: "oh, so what if my toe has gangrene, I don't really need my toe to walk, I'll just ignore it and hope it doesn't spread any further."

Yeah, how well does that work?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Here is a fantastic article about the theology that motivates ISIS:

some highlights:


Paraphrase from a related article whose link I've misplaced.

ISIS is a brand of fundamentalism that is highly Islamic: their goal is to restore Islamic rule. They are killing Muslims as well as non-believers because to them, heresy / apostasy is a more serious sin than non-belief. They believe that terrorizing non-believers is merciful because it causes them to surrender more quickly, shortening the conflict and saving lives (assuming they then convert). Other Muslims are heretics because they believe in co-existence with non-believers.

To say that ISIS is "not Islam" is like saying "fundamentalist Christians" are "not Christian." To ISIS leaders, they are the only pure form of Islam that exists, and it is their sacred duty to impose Islamic law on the entire world.


Nothing will stop them except force. The more land they take over, the stronger they get. It is like gangrene: "oh, so what if my toe has gangrene, I don't really need my toe to walk, I'll just ignore it and hope it doesn't spread any further."

Yeah, how well does that work?

I saw this article in The Atlantic, which sounds similar to the article you may be referencing. It's an important angle that this isn't just some crazy group of fanatics who don't have plans, goals, etc. While I don't agree with everything in the article, it was quite an interesting read and stuff like setting up the caliph was the kind of stuff that westerners don't seem to generally understand, but that seems to be very significant to the overall equation.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...-wants/384980/

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Here is a fantastic article about the theology that motivates ISIS:

some highlights:


Paraphrase from a related article whose link I've misplaced.

ISIS is a brand of fundamentalism that is highly Islamic: their goal is to restore Islamic rule. They are killing Muslims as well as non-believers because to them, heresy / apostasy is a more serious sin than non-belief. They believe that terrorizing non-believers is merciful because it causes them to surrender more quickly, shortening the conflict and saving lives (assuming they then convert). Other Muslims are heretics because they believe in co-existence with non-believers.

To say that ISIS is "not Islam" is like saying "fundamentalist Christians" are "not Christian." To ISIS leaders, they are the only pure form of Islam that exists, and it is their sacred duty to impose Islamic law on the entire world.


Nothing will stop them except force. The more land they take over, the stronger they get. It is like gangrene: "oh, so what if my toe has gangrene, I don't really need my toe to walk, I'll just ignore it and hope it doesn't spread any further."

Yeah, how well does that work?

That's great. So what do you propose we do about ISIS? "Boots on the ground" was clearly an expensive, drawn-out failure that ousted the existing, neutered leadership and created a vacuum that was filled with new leaders who are far worse.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

Oooh, ISIS, I'm scared.

[FreshFish]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 6 - Perpetual Motion Machine

That's great. So what do you propose we do about ISIS?

Well, isn't the first step to acknowledge what it is and what it's ambitions are? We aren't even there yet. The theologist-in-chief is still unwilling to admit the obvious, and until that happens we are kind of stuck, no?