Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

I think there's a good deal of ambiguity to this story given what we know and it's not clear cut. But the amount of people who refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that Wilson could've done anything wrong is interesting to say the least and this case serves as a pretty good racial Rorschach test.

The same could be said about people who are blindly (in our perception) believing that the cop must've been in the wrong serving as a lefty-liberal Rorschach test.

If you find people who always believe that cops are justified when they shoot minorities, I'll agree with you.

There are many cases where I believe that cops were in the wrong and I'd guess that others here do too. This just isn't one of those.

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

If you find people who always believe that cops are justified when they shoot minorities, I'll agree with you.

It wouldn't be too difficult, he posts here pretty regularly. The test can apply to (interpretations of) cases in which wannabe cops go out of their way to shoot minorities as well.

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

I thought it was funny the parents and their attorneys claim they did this "because the world needs to know what happened in Ferguson."

The Ferguson story is a lot of things. Under-reported isn't the first one that comes to mind, though.

I'm not sure I agree. The coverage has been voluminous, but most of it has concerned the aftermath or, the media's favorite thing to do, coverage of the coverage. I think if you gave all the newly-minted self-appointed forensic experts in the Fox or MSNBC audience a test on the actual facts of the case, very few would pass. Yet these same people somehow "know" exactly what happened -- and it somehow accidentally dovetails with their worldview of brave police dealing with rabid animals or innocent civilians harassed by power-mad authoritarians, respectively.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

It wouldn't be too difficult, he posts here pretty regularly. The test can apply to (interpretations of) cases in which wannabe cops go out of their way to shoot minorities as well.

Well... it's no shock that we have a few loonies that post here regularly.

Just because they are with the majority on this one doesn't make the majority wrong or biased.

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

No but the problem is they're all using more or less the same logic. Obviously Brown committed a strong-ARMED ROBBERY, there's no other possible interpretation (despite the fact that we can't really see if he did in fact hand money to the cashier due to the fact that this is the one convenience store in the entire country without a camera on the register). Clearly he charged like a rhino after running away, he just wanted to kill a cop that day obviously and running directly at bullets makes a lot of sense. Obviously the gun went off in the car because Brown was trying to kill him with it.

Again, it's hard to tell who was the bigger aggressor here and there's just as much reason to think it was Wilson as Brown.

[St. Clown]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

No but the problem is they're all using more or less the same logic. Obviously Brown committed a strong-ARMED ROBBERY, there's no other possible interpretation (despite the fact that we can't really see if he did in fact hand money to the cashier due to the fact that this is the one convenience store in the entire country without a camera on the register). Clearly he charged like a rhino after running away, he just wanted to kill a cop that day obviously and running directly at bullets makes a lot of sense. Obviously the gun went off in the car because Brown was trying to kill him with it.

Again, it's hard to tell who was the bigger aggressor here and there's just as much reason to think it was Wilson as Brown.

Strong arm robbery is a violent robbery without a weapon. You see Michael Brown accost the store clerk, grabbing and lifting him by his shirt. You don't take such an action if you're politely paying for the goods you're taking.

In fact, here's the dictionary's definition of the term: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strong-arm

adjective
1. using, involving, or threatening the use of physical force or violence to gain an objective: "strong-arm methods."

verb (used with object)
2. to use violent methods upon; assault.
3. to rob by force.
4. to coerce by threats or intimidation; bully:
"They strong-armed me into voting for the plan."



Then again, the dictionary's probably biased against Saint Michael Brown, too.

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

The guy appears to lay hands on Brown in the vid before Brown grabbed him. How exactly would you react if a store clerk laid hands on you?

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

There are at least two rules of thumb in these "racial" incidents: The truth is almost always the first victim. The initial narrative almost never survives subsequent analysis. The Duke "rape" case, for instance. Or poor little Trayvon, shot dead by a racist community watch guy in a "gated" community. And in the case at hand, "Big Mike" gunned down by a racist cop for no reason other than the color of his skin.

The accuser in the Duke "rape" case was a whore and liar and, ultimately, a murderer. But her alleged attackers were white, well to do and jocks. "Bingo" said the lynch mob. Her lies were accepted by an on the make prosecutor who was willing to send three college guys to prison for years in order to gain traction politically with black voters in Durham. He paid the appropriate price.

Poor little Trayvon was evidently the only 17 year old in America with no contemporaneous photographs (at least not ones shown by the MSM). Instead, for months, we were treated (and are still treated) to photos of a smiling, cherubic 12 year old Trayvon. The MSM went into overdrive to sell and enhance the narrative that he was gunned down by a racist. The NYT even coined the phrase "white Hispanic" to describe George Zimmerman. Audio tapes were edited in ways calculated to make Zimmerman appear to be focused on Martin's race. "Experts" offered opinions that the word "punks" used by Zimmerman was actually "coons." Efforts were made to disguise or cover up Zimmerman's injuries. It was suggested that it was Martin screaming for help instead of Zimmerman (although customarily the person doing the a*s kicking doesn't want or need any help). And, of course, that Zimmerman was a "racist" despite overwhelming evidence that he was not. The dead enders don't care. These facts cannot be permitted to interfere with their narrative.

Similarly, Michael Brown is cast as an "innocent" victim of a white cop's racism. And perhaps he was. But the evidence that has been adduced so far points away from that conclusion. At the heart of the matter is the totally nonsensical claim by "Big Mike's" running buddy that Officer Wilson tried to pull a 300 pounder into the front seat of his cruiser. I suppose if you can believe that whopper, you can believe anything. Brown attacked Wilson, not the other way 'round. And went for Wilson's gun. There are witnesses who have given accounts of the incident at variance with the narrative. Naturally, since they're most likely African American and live in Ferguson, they're scared to death to come forward. Who can blame them? We can never be entirely certain what was going through Wilson's mind when he fired. But Wilson has no history of overt racism which would be predictive of a homicidal hatred of black folks.

Bit by bit, the initial narrative here is crumbling. I have no idea what the grand jury will do. But it wouldn't surprise me if they no billed Wilson. Which brings us to the second rule of thumb: to the dead enders, since America is irredeemably racist, any fatal encounter between police and a young black male is a manifestation of that racism, period. Thus, if Wilson is no billed, the "No Justice, No Peace" crowd will be justified in inducing folks in Ferguson to confront the cops and burn the town down. The extremely left wing (you can't say Communist front anymore) National Lawyers Guild has been working like busy beavers in Ferguson. And based on their past activities, I seriously doubt they've been counseling against violence.

It should be obvious, even to the dead enders, but evidently it's not: to disagree with the narrative here is not to approve of the random, deliberate, gunning down of innocent black males. The flip side, however, is it would be nice if just once the narrative accurately portrayed what happened. And not a tendentious version of events.

[unofan]

The same could be said about people who are blindly (in our perception) believing that the cop must've been in the wrong serving as a lefty-liberal Rorschach test.

If you find people who always believe that cops are justified when they shoot minorities, I'll agree with you.

There are many cases where I believe that cops were in the wrong and I'd guess that others here do too. This just isn't one of those.

I have no idea whether the cop was justified or not, though I'm leaning towards yes based on the information I've seen.

My bigger issue is the cops' management of the situation thereafter (or lack thereof). They did not do themselves any favors by appearing to cover it up, failing to release any information, providing conflicting information about whether the officer knew about the robbery or not, etc.

That is a case study on how to take an already bad situation and make it a giant pile of suck. Given that, I'd be loathe to believe the cops, too. That said, the fact that the DOJ hasn't done anything speaks volumes.

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

But Wilson has no history of overt racism which would be predictive of a homicidal hatred of black folks.

His former police force was shut down due to racism.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

I have no idea whether the cop was justified or not, though I'm leaning towards yes based on the information I've seen.

My bigger issue is the cops' management of the situation thereafter (or lack thereof). They did not do themselves any favors by appearing to cover it up, failing to release any information, providing conflicting information about whether the officer knew about the robbery or not, etc.

That is a case study on how to take an already bad situation and make it a giant pile of suck. Given that, I'd be loathe to believe the cops, too. That said, the fact that the DOJ hasn't done anything speaks volumes.

Agreed on all of that.

As for the bolded, my guess is that they'd love to have a poster (whipping) boy that they could parade in public and say, "SEE! We will prosecute the bad cops!"

They haven't done this yet which leads me to believe that they don't have a case. Like you said - speaks volumes.

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Well the prosecutor in this case doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation of going after bad cops, as evidenced by the decision to go to a grand jury and present things in a rather unconventional manner, as well as this gem:

In 2000, in the so-called "Jack in the box" case, two undercover officers shot and killed two unarmed black men. In 2001, they told a grand jury that the suspects tried to escape arrest and then drove toward them; the jury declined to indict.[2][4] McCulloch told the public that every witness had testified to confirm this version, but journalists reviewed the previously secret grand jury tapes and found that McCulloch lied: only three of 13 officers testified that the car was moving forward.[3] A subsequent federal investigation found that men were unarmed and that their car had not moved forward when the officers fired 21 shots; nevertheless, it decided that the shooting was justified.[2][4] McCulloch also drew controversy when he said of the victims: "These guys were bums."[2]

After the August 2014 shooting of Michael Brown, McCulloch announced that rather than making a decision about whether to arrest police officer Darren Wilson, he would bring the case before a grand jury,[8] leaving to jurors the decision of what charges might be brought, if any.[9] His spokesman acknowledged that it is unusual that the prosecutor is not asking the grand jury to endorse a specific charge.[9] It is also unusual to present a case to a grand jury before the police investigation is over.[10]

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Well the prosecutor in this case doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation of going after bad cops, as evidenced by the decision to go to a grand jury and present things in a rather unconventional manner, as well as this gem:

You don't think there's federal oversight on this one? If the evidence is there, they're gonna go after this cop.

[trixR4kids]

Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

You don't think there's federal oversight on this one? If the evidence is there, they're gonna go after this cop.

It's a state crime.

[Jimjamesak]

I have no idea whether the cop was justified or not, though I'm leaning towards yes based on the information I've seen.

My bigger issue is the cops' management of the situation thereafter (or lack thereof). They did not do themselves any favors by appearing to cover it up, failing to release any information, providing conflicting information about whether the officer knew about the robbery or not, etc.

That is a case study on how to take an already bad situation and make it a giant pile of suck. Given that, I'd be loathe to believe the cops, too. That said, the fact that the DOJ hasn't done anything speaks volumes.

That's the bigger issue to come out of this. The issues of the police and the things being used afterwards, automatic weapons, MRAPs and other ex-military hardware, and their behavior are being, sadly, swept under the rug.