The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

The user group here is the kids and their parents. Including their feedback in performance reviews that are the basis of bonuses and raises would help.

That makes me cringe for just a moment. Websites like RateMyProfessor started mostly so that students could b*tch and moan about tough profs (and up-vote the attractive ones ). Being a tough or strict teacher does not automatically make you a bad teacher.

[dxmnkd316]

The user group here is the kids and their parents. Including their feedback in performance reviews that are the basis of bonuses and raises would help.

HEY! You're back in the Cafe!

[Slap Shot]

That makes me cringe for just a moment. Websites like RateMyProfessor started mostly so that students could b*tch and moan about tough profs (and up-vote the attractive ones ). Being a tough or strict teacher does not automatically make you a bad teacher.

One bad rating wouldn't spoil the overall if deserving of better.

[dxmnkd316]

That makes me cringe for just a moment. Websites like RateMyProfessor started mostly so that students could b*tch and moan about tough profs (and up-vote the attractive ones ). Being a tough or strict teacher does not automatically make you a bad teacher.

The chili pepper.

[LynahFan]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

That makes me cringe for just a moment. Websites like RateMyProfessor started mostly so that students could b*tch and moan about tough profs (and up-vote the attractive ones ). Being a tough or strict teacher does not automatically make you a bad teacher.

No, but even if a certain school's parents and kids voted out all the tough teachers, they'd end up with exactly the kind of teachers they want (and deserve). The tough teachers would just move on to districts where they were more appreciated. Seems like a win for everyone.

[joecct]

No, but even if a certain school's parents and kids voted out all the tough teachers, they'd end up with exactly the kind of teachers they want (and deserve). The tough teachers would just move on to districts where they were more appreciated. Seems like a win for everyone.

It would be an ugly few years, but the free market would level the playing field.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Yeah, I really hate the idea of using standardized tests for any significant measure of a teacher's performance. I was never a good standardized test taker (until the GRE which I blew out of the water). Mainly because I would get so worked up and nervous that I would struggle to read the question or passage. Which is funny because I was reading at a very, very young age.

[unofan]

HEY! You're back in the Cafe!

Or he forgot to log into his alt before posting. Though that answer want nearly long winded enough to be fresh fish...hmmm

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

My thoughts on the "teacher tenure" laws.

First, I agree with some people who say they do cause some problems, especially in terms of getting rid of very poor teachers. And we're kidding ourselves if we say that there aren't really bad teachers out there, or we can't reliably figure out who they are. All of us have gone through various levels of the education system in this country, and we've each likely had very good, and not-so-good teachers. Between teacher tenure laws and the generally strong protections afforded by the disciplinary processes in a union contract, the likelihood of a school district forcing out even the worst of the teachers, short of that teacher committing a felony for which prison time will keep them away from the school, is almost nil.

That said, I have also always believed that teacher tenure laws are not something foisted upon us by teachers unions with unfettered political power. In fact, I believe teacher tenure laws are something that school districts themselves, at least privately, have endorsed or at least accepted, for their own selfish reasons.

Let's assume we went to some sort of "free market" approach to teachers, like say doctors or lawyers or architects or engineers. That is, the best in their profession would have the ability to market themselves to various suitors, with the highest bidder prevailing in the race for their services.

Take a school district like in Minneapolis-St. Paul. If you start going to a system of thorough evaluation of teachers performance, with merit pay incentive, suddenly the best teachers in each school, at least according to the evaluations, are going to be publicly identified. Now you're going to have schools like Edina, Eden Prairie, etc..., openly poaching these "best teachers".

With the system in place now, schools are able to "hide" the true stars in their district, short of the typical word of mouth between parents talk that goes on about how you need to have little Jimmy in Mrs. "X's" 4th grade class, instead of Mr. "Y's" class.

I don't think school districts want to accurately evaluate their teachers, and disclose (through merit pay) who their best teachers are, for risk of losing them.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Not quite clear to me how "tenure" laws intersect with LIFO (Last In First Out). The latter is really a major part of the problem: you decide on who to keep based solely on how long they've been on the payroll, period. No other criteria. It seemed like the judge really came down hard on that point.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Or he forgot to log into his alt before posting. Though that answer want nearly long winded enough to be fresh fish...hmmm

Sorry, but if Kepler does have a troll alter ego (frankly, I figure a certain moderator would've outed that by now), I'm not believing for one second that it's FF.

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

That makes me cringe for just a moment. Websites like RateMyProfessor started mostly so that students could b*tch and moan about tough profs (and up-vote the attractive ones ). Being a tough or strict teacher does not automatically make you a bad teacher.

I know that is a risk, which is why I wouldn't support a simple deterministic function where your raise (or even your continuation) is tied directly and exclusively to your rating. I was thinking about my experience with good teachers in middle school and high school -- there seemed to be pretty strong agreement about which teachers were inspiring and working hard to teach. These were often among the harder grading teachers, but students respond to challenges and that's how they grow.

There would need to be a circuit-breaker when it comes to overtly political issues (the biology teacher who teaches evolution "wrong" by local community standards).

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Sorry, but if Kepler does have a troll alter ego (frankly, I figure a certain moderator would've outed that by now), I'm not believing for one second that it's FF.

Reports of my reincarnation have been greatly exaggerated.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Yeah, I really hate the idea of using standardized tests for any significant measure of a teacher's performance. I was never a good standardized test taker (until the GRE which I blew out of the water). Mainly because I would get so worked up and nervous that I would struggle to read the question or passage. Which is funny because I was reading at a very, very young age.

The other problem we face, and we've seen it arise a few times, is we don't want to implement incentives to cheat and lie. I can't recall where I read about it (outside the VA scandal, I mean) where teachers and principals were fudging grades in order to meet performance targets.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Sorry, but if Kepler does have a troll alter ego (frankly, I figure a certain moderator would've outed that by now), I'm not believing for one second that it's FF.

Yes, this.