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  • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    Here is the Wikipedia page on Sanger, for balance.

    Comment


    • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      OK, I get it now. Thank you.

      Here is the Wikipedia page on Sanger, for balance.
      Horrors, you're citing Wikipedia!

      Just had to do that, as some folks around here have major issues with citing Wikipedia. I don't really have an issue with citing wiki, if there's info elsewhere that confirms what is said on wiki.

      She certainly had a variety of views on things, many of which weren't as offensive as the ones I've cited. But, hey, that's kind of like saying someone is in the KKK and believes in white superiority, but they also coach little league baseball and donate to the United Way. The good stuff is good, but it doesn't excuse the bad, which reasonably leaves a taint.
      Originally posted by Priceless
      Good to see you're so reasonable.
      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
      Very well, said.
      Originally posted by Rover
      A fair assessment Bob.

      Comment


      • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

        Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
        Horrors, you're citing Wikipedia!

        Just had to do that, as some folks around here have major issues with citing Wikipedia. I don't really have an issue with citing wiki, if there's info elsewhere that confirms what is said on wiki.

        She certainly had a variety of views on things, many of which weren't as offensive as the ones I've cited. But, hey, that's kind of like saying someone is in the KKK and believes in white superiority, but they also coach little league baseball and donate to the United Way. The good stuff is good, but it doesn't excuse the bad, which reasonably leaves a taint.
        I agree with this to a point. People are never entirely separate from their times. Lincoln wanted to deport all the blacks back to Africa and believed they could never be truly equal to whites. Born in 1959, that would make him a virulent racist. Born in 1809, that would make him born in 1809. Sanger's views on immigration and eugenics were quite typical of her times. Her views on birth control and the sexual liberation of women were ahead of her time -- though not radically. Note for example that she opposed abortion (given the state of medicine at the time I'm not surprised) and was terrified of masturbation for the same sort of "Victorian Christianity hygiene" reasons that were typical of the turn of the century.

        I do enjoy any debate in which the far right makes common cause with Angela Davis.
        Last edited by Kepler; 10-22-2014, 01:36 PM.
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        • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          I agree with this to a point. People are never entirely separate from their times. Lincoln wanted to deport all the blacks back to Africa and believed they could never be truly equal to whites. Born in 1959, that would make him a virulent racist. Born in 1809, that would make him born in 1809.
          Or we could just pick and choose from history what we want to push our own agenda. Either way.
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

          Comment


          • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
            Or we could just pick and choose from history what we want to push our own agenda. Either way.
            That is pretty much what history is for, right?
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            • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

              15 years ago, y'all were arguing about the definition of "is."

              I suppose it's progress of a sort that we are now debating the definition of "widespread", eh?


              The Bronx DA is investigating claims of voter fraud in a hotly contested Democratic primary for the Assembly....

              [In an earlier investigation,] Assemblyman Nelson Castro was nailed for election fraud after nine voters were discovered registered at his one-bedroom apartment.

              He later cut a deal with the feds and wore a wire to ensnare other officials engaged in corruption.
              or

              State election officials are looking into thousands of cases where registered voters may have voted in two states or after their reported death. A report presented Wednesday by Elections Director Kim Strach to the Joint Legislative Elections Oversight Committee said 81 voters have a voter history later than the date of their death. The audit further identified 13,416 deceased voters on voter rolls in Oct. 13. The audit showed 155,692 registered North Carolina voters whose first and last names, dates of birth and last four digits of their Social Security number match those of voters registered in other states, but who most recently registered or voted elsewhere. A total of 35,750 voters with matching first and last names and date of birth were registered in North Carolina and another state, and voted in both states in the 2012 general election. Another 765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, date of birth and last four digits of their Social Security number were registered and voted in the 2012 general election in North Carolina and another state...A total of 28 states participated in the crosscheck, leaving data missing from 22 other states.
              or any one of the sixteen court cases listed here.


              I am reminded of that classic scene from Annie Hall. Woody Allen's character and Diane Keaton's character are each talking to their own therapist on a split screen. Each therapist asks, "how often do you have sex?"
              -- Diane Keaton's character: "Oh, all the time, around three times a week."
              -- Woody Allen's character: "Oh, hardly ever, around three times a week."

              So one person's "widespread" is another person's "trivial amount" and yet they are the same number of cases in each instance!

              So, is it "more than ten states every election cycle?" "more than one city in each state in at least twenty states in each election cycle?"

              It seems there is no doubt whatsoever that it occurs. Does it matter? I guess it depends on what is at stake, eh? It was pretty well documented in Franken's election in MN that in some districts more votes were counted than there were registered voters, and the total margin was less than 400 votes.
              Last edited by FreshFish; 10-22-2014, 08:54 PM.
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              • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

                Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                some folks around here have major issues with citing Wikipedia.
                I suppose one could just go to Wikipedia and then cite the sources that are cited there, eh?
                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                Comment


                • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

                  Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                  I suppose one could just go to Wikipedia and then cite the sources that are cited there, eh?
                  That would be fine. Citing Wikipedia itself is academically lazy.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                    That would be fine. Citing Wikipedia itself is academically lazy.
                    Not as lazy as ignoring something that's true simply because it had the audacity to appear on wiki.
                    I wish I am able to live long enough to do all the things I was attributed to.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                      15 years ago, y'all were arguing about the definition of "is."

                      I suppose it's progress of a sort that we are now debating the definition of "widespread", eh?




                      or



                      or any one of the sixteen court cases listed here.


                      I am reminded of that classic scene from Annie Hall. Woody Allen's character and Diane Keaton's character are each talking to their own therapist on a split screen. Each therapist asks, "how often do you have sex?"
                      -- Diane Keaton's character: "Oh, all the time, around three times a week."
                      -- Woody Allen's character: "Oh, hardly ever, around three times a week."

                      So one person's "widespread" is another person's "trivial amount" and yet they are the same number of cases in each instance!

                      So, is it "more than ten states every election cycle?" "more than one city in each state in at least twenty states in each election cycle?"

                      It seems there is no doubt whatsoever that it occurs. Does it matter? I guess it depends on what is at stake, eh? It was pretty well documented in Franken's election in MN that in some districts more votes were counted than there were registered voters, and the total margin was less than 400 votes.
                      In none of those cases you referenced would voter ID laws have changed anything. Failing to clear deceased people off the voter rolls also isn't fraud, just laziness.

                      And since it's such common knowledge that there was fraud in Minn. six years ago, you should have no problem finding a non right wing cite to support that, right?

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

                        Hey question for all USCHO Knuckledraggers (Opie, Fishy, Clown, etc).

                        You all seem to be hitting the same theme (the voter fraud boogeyman) at the same time. As its unlikely any one of you could coordinate a one car funeral on your own, I'm curious which right wing media outlet is telling you to do this. Rush? Drudge? Hannity? Beck? Since this is such a pressing issue, you won't mind enlightening the rest of us as to which of these truth tellers we should be listening to on this subject...
                        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                        Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                        "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                        • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

                          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                          I suppose one could just go to Wikipedia and then cite the sources that are cited there, eh?
                          I don't generally mind it, given that most people around here just throw opinions around without any sort of citation. Wiki is certainly better than no citation at all.
                          Originally posted by Priceless
                          Good to see you're so reasonable.
                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                          Very well, said.
                          Originally posted by Rover
                          A fair assessment Bob.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            I agree with this to a point. People are never entirely separate from their times. Lincoln wanted to deport all the blacks back to Africa and believed they could never be truly equal to whites. Born in 1959, that would make him a virulent racist. Born in 1809, that would make him born in 1809. Sanger's views on immigration and eugenics were quite typical of her times. Her views on birth control and the sexual liberation of women were ahead of her time -- though not radically. Note for example that she opposed abortion (given the state of medicine at the time I'm not surprised) and was terrified of masturbation for the same sort of "Victorian Christianity hygiene" reasons that were typical of the turn of the century.

                            I do enjoy any debate in which the far right makes common cause with Angela Davis.
                            I have no idea what Angela Davis has to do with anything I said. But, as I said before, Sanger wasn't crazy in some of her views, but things like wanting to exterminate Negros kind of overshadow the other stuff, at least in my book. Maybe not such a big deal to some folks, particularly those in the pro-abortion Planned Parenthood crowd.
                            Originally posted by Priceless
                            Good to see you're so reasonable.
                            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                            Very well, said.
                            Originally posted by Rover
                            A fair assessment Bob.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

                              Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                              I have no idea what Angela Davis has to do with anything I said. But, as I said before, Sanger wasn't crazy in some of her views, but things like wanting to exterminate Negros kind of overshadow the other stuff, at least in my book. Maybe not such a big deal to some folks, particularly those in the pro-abortion Planned Parenthood crowd.
                              I don't really know all that many people who are pro-abortion, but I could see where Sanger might be interesting to them...just like Stalin or some other ruthless dictator might be appealing to those in the anti-choice crowd.
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                              • Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                                I have no idea what Angela Davis has to do with anything I said. But, as I said before, Sanger wasn't crazy in some of her views, but things like wanting to exterminate Negros kind of overshadow the other stuff, at least in my book. Maybe not such a big deal to some folks, particularly those in the pro-abortion Planned Parenthood crowd.
                                Yes, because clearly anyone who believes women should have the right to control their own bodies wants to "exterminate the Negros."

                                Your implication is way more offensive than anything you accused me of, Bob.

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