Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Also one guy has defeated Ser Gregor to date (Loras Tyrell).

Well, technically he was defeated by the horse Loras was riding on.

His brother fought him to a stalemate, though.

[97osu]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

You know, if Tywin did call the Mountain in as a champion for the Crown, it might be a setup to give Prince Oberyn the chance to kill him in single combat, acting as Tyrion's champion. Just a thought, but it seems like a long one to me.

[owslachief]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Right. This puts Tywin in a tough situation, he won't want Jaime to be killed for all of the reasons you say. I wonder if Tywin would even expect Jaime to stand for Tyrion...This is the way for Tyrion to get out of it completely.

Whatever Tywin's motivations or expectations, there's no getting around the Laws of Gods and Men - that Cersei stands as the accuser. She gets to decide who will be her champion - she gets that Jaime is very sympathetic to Tirion (he's ready to rule at Casterly Rock as part of the original deal to save Tirion's life - something he was unwilling to do earlier), and Tirion is the one person in the Seven Kingdoms she despises the most. So she'd rather sacrifice whoever she can, and will take no chances when picking a champion. She only really loves / loved her children. Bron or Jaime for the accused? Possibilities. Also one guy has defeated Ser Gregor to date (Loras Tyrell).

[rufus]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I was expecting him to make that very request earlier in the episode, but then thought that it might be considered a retread storywise. At the same time, it makes me think that the whole trial was a charade for Tywin to get the deal he wanted all along, knowing his sons as he does.

Yeah, that's the vibe I got from it. Tywin was too quick to say yes when Jamie made his offer.

I just knew Tyrion was too proud, and had too much character to beg for mercy for something he hadn't done. That last scene was wonderful.

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Right. This puts Tywin in a tough situation, he won't want Jaime to be killed for all of the reasons you say. I wonder if Tywin would even expect Jaime to stand for Tyrion...This is the way for Tyrion to get out of it completely.

You know, if Tywin did call the Mountain in as a champion for the Crown, it might be a setup to give Prince Oberyn the chance to kill him in single combat, acting as Tyrion's champion. Just a thought, but it seems like a long one to me.

[jmh]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Given the discussion from non-book readers in this thread, I think maybe the show hasn't really done a good enough job setting up why Oberyn will eventually stand for Tyrion in the trial by combat. In the books, a rapport was cultivated that supported it better.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I don't think that the Mountain would make a good combatant for a trial by combat, at least not in this situation. Tywin wants the Martells onboard because he's worried about the Targaeryans, and if the Mountain prevails he loses both Jaime and Tyrion, ensure then end of his line because Jaime's sure to volunteer for Tyrion. Bron might volunteer, but he'd want to see his opponent before taking a risk like that. Other than that, Tyrion appears to be short on supporters in King's Landing these days.

Right. This puts Tywin in a tough situation, he won't want Jaime to be killed for all of the reasons you say. I wonder if Tywin would even expect Jaime to stand for Tyrion...This is the way for Tyrion to get out of it completely.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Well, there's your Dinklage Emmy nomination after that last scene

Yep. Fiance said, "wow that was really good" after it, I said "Yeah, that might win him an Emmy". My favorite Tyrion scene yet, and there have been so many good ones.

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

A terrible calamity has befallen the Republic! Pirate Bay is down on Game of Thrones day!!!!!

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Interesting observation in the recap/review on io9:

When Tyrion came to King's Landing, he'd just been appointed acting Hand of the King, and he was suddenly eager to prove that he was smarter than the previous Hand, Ned Stark. But last night's episode shows him facing the exact same fate as Ned, because he couldn't stop being too clever for his own good.

Tyrion's masterstroke was that he told three different people three different plans, to see which one got back to his sister Cersei: Littlefinger, Varys and Pycelle. Whoever told Cersei, Tyrion would know he couldn't trust. When Pycelle ratted Tyrion out to Cersei, Tyrion had Pycelle tossed in a black cell. And then Tyrion went ahead with his real plan, sending Cersei's only daughter Myrcella away to Dorne to be protected (or to be a hostage.)

There are a few key flaws in Tyrion's cunning ruse, however. First of all, he should have known already who he could trust: nobody. Second of all, the two people he came away deciding he could trust were Littlefinger (who framed him for murder, although he doesn't know that) and Varys (who just testified against him at his trial.) Third of all, he made an enemy of Pycelle, who is only too eager to make up crazy stories about Tyrion stealing every poison on Earth from Pycelle's stash.

This whole business of figuring out who you can trust is only slightly different than Ned Stark insisting on giving Cersei a fair warning before revealing her secret — in both cases, it betrays a misunderstanding of how the world works.

That's something I hadn't thought about before.

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Does this set up Ser Jamie vs. The Mountain in the Trial by Combat? Let's see how well the now-former White Sword will fare with the left hand!

So let me see if I can pick out the cinematic end of Theon - he plays the "role of Theon" so convincingly he remembers himself at the end, sacrificing himself to save his sister from certain death at the hand of the Ramsey Snow - B%stard with a capital 'B'.

I don't think that the Mountain would make a good combatant for a trial by combat, at least not in this situation. Tywin wants the Martells onboard because he's worried about the Targaeryans, and if the Mountain prevails he loses both Jaime and Tyrion, ensure then end of his line because Jaime's sure to volunteer for Tyrion. Bron might volunteer, but he'd want to see his opponent before taking a risk like that. Other than that, Tyrion appears to be short on supporters in King's Landing these days.

[owslachief]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

I was expecting him to make that very request earlier in the episode, but then thought that it might be considered a retread storywise. At the same time, it makes me think that the whole trial was a charade for Tywin to get the deal he wanted all along, knowing his sons as he does.

Does this set up Ser Jamie vs. The Mountain in the Trial by Combat? Let's see how well the now-former White Sword will fare with the left hand!

So let me see if I can pick out the cinematic end of Theon - he plays the "role of Theon" so convincingly he remembers himself at the end, sacrificing himself to save his sister from certain death at the hand of the Ramsey Snow - B%stard with a capital 'B'.

[St. Clown]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Well, there's your Dinklage Emmy nomination after that last scene

I was expecting him to make that very request earlier in the episode, but then thought that it might be considered a retread storywise. At the same time, it makes me think that the whole trial was a charade for Tywin to get the deal he wanted all along, knowing his sons as he does.

[bronconick]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

Well, there's your Dinklage Emmy nomination after that last scene

[jmh]

Re: Game of Thrones - Season 4: Who Is Jon Snow?

If the Arya-and-the-Hound buddy comedy were aired back to back with the Brienne-and-Pod detective show, it would be such must-see-TV that I wouldn't even DVR it, I'd watch it live with commercials and all.