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College Football Players---Students or Employees?

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  • #61
    Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

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    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
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    Originally posted by SanTropez
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Originally posted by Kepler
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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    • #62
      Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

      Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
      I disagree. As much as I know that many (probably most) of them are self-entitled prima donnas who mistreat women and all the rest, that doesn't make it right that a 3rd party (the universities) should be allowed to make money off of them hand over fist. You can't round up a bunch of starving refugees from Haiti and force them to work in your factory 50 hours per week while paying them next to nothing and refusing to negotiate with them just because "at least they're better off now than they would have been otherwise." That's effectively what universities are doing to their money-making (i.e. football and basketball) athletes.
      Well, jees, I would have thought that the 20-30k per year worth of education is pretty good for the 4 months they play football. They're getting plenty, if they're too stupid to figure that out, well then, this education they're getting is lost on them, because they're hopeless.
      Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

      RIP - Kirby

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      • #63
        Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
        Well, jees, I would have thought that the 20-30k per year worth of education is pretty good for the 4 months they play football. They're getting plenty, if they're too stupid to figure that out, well then, this education they're getting is lost on them, because they're hopeless.
        You really think they only play football for four months? You think the education they receive is worth $20-30K? Let's ask student athletes from UNC how much their education is worth.

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        • #64
          Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

          Originally posted by Priceless View Post
          You really think they only play football for four months? You think the education they receive is worth $20-30K? Let's ask student athletes from UNC how much their education is worth.
          The value of a one-year Northwestern football scholarship was $76,000+ according to the NLRB decision.
          Code:
          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
            The value of a one-year Northwestern football scholarship was $76,000+ according to the NLRB decision.
            I'm pretty sure that Priceless's point was that the "education" the athletes receive at some schools is not commensurate with the student population at large. Deadspin posted a pic of one-paragraph essay a UNC basketball player handed in on Rosa Parks. It received an A-, allegedly. If all of what Deadspin posted is true, these athletes aren't earning a fraction of the education a normal student does.
            "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

            "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

            "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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            • #66
              Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

              Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
              I'm pretty sure that Priceless's point was that the "education" the athletes receive at some schools is not commensurate with the student population at large. Deadspin posted a pic of one-paragraph essay a UNC basketball player handed in on Rosa Parks. It received an A-, allegedly. If all of what Deadspin posted is true, these athletes aren't earning a fraction of the education a normal student does.
              True. But then I would argue that what we need is far, far more rigorous entrance standards and accountability on the academic side. Paying players doesn't even come close to solving that.
              Code:
              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
              Originally posted by SanTropez
              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
              Originally posted by Kepler
              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                I'm pretty sure that Priceless's point was that the "education" the athletes receive at some schools is not commensurate with the student population at large. Deadspin posted a pic of one-paragraph essay a UNC basketball player handed in on Rosa Parks. It received an A-, allegedly. If all of what Deadspin posted is true, these athletes aren't earning a fraction of the education a normal student does.
                And who's choice was it to take those BS courses? If the team/coach is forcing students to take bull**** majors, then there is a big problem. If not, then it is the student's fault for squandering a hugely valuable opportunity.
                Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                RIP - Kirby

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                  Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                  And who's choice was it to take those BS courses? If the team/coach is forcing students to take bull**** majors, then there is a big problem. If not, then it is the student's fault for squandering a hugely valuable opportunity.
                  There are reports at some schools where the coaches are dictating to their players which majors they can choose and having special courses created for their athletes so that schoolwork doesn't get in the way of training or eligibility. And I would agree that it's a big problem. Football and basketball are complete messes because of the amount of money out there and schools who've decided to chase the dollar than stay true to their real purpose.
                  "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                  "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                  "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                    Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                    There are reports at some schools where the coaches are dictating to their players which majors they can choose and having special courses created for their athletes so that schoolwork doesn't get in the way of training or eligibility. And I would agree that it's a big problem. Football and basketball are complete messes because of the amount of money out there and schools who've decided to chase the dollar than stay true to their real purpose.
                    Then, as dx said, there needs to be NCAA educational reform, not a push to pay players. Find the schools that are doing this, and death penalty the **** out of them.
                    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                    RIP - Kirby

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                      Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                      There are reports at some schools where the coaches are dictating to their players which majors they can choose and having special courses created for their athletes so that schoolwork doesn't get in the way of training or eligibility. And I would agree that it's a big problem. Football and basketball are complete messes because of the amount of money out there and schools who've decided to chase the dollar than stay true to their real purpose.
                      In relation to Northwestern, there was evidence that scholarship players were not allowed to miss practice (or parts of it) without their scholarships being taken away. Consequently, given that some courses were not always offered at times where they could be in class on a regular basis, players were essentially unable to take certain majors/classes.

                      Also, in relation to the argument that they are only playing football 4 months out of the year, people are forgetting: 1) Spring Football; 2) Training Camp; 3) Conditioning during the Off Season; and 4) Bowl Games. Each of these essentially means that players are spending ~50hours/week from the beginning of August through December, then another ~20 hours/week the rest of the season. Couple that with the tremendous amount of control the coaches have over the players (read the NLRB decision to see exactly what I'm talking about), and it is pretty obvious these players are employees (using the common law employee definition that the NLRA essentially does).
                      North Dakota
                      National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                      • #71
                        Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                        Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                        In relation to Northwestern, there was evidence that scholarship players were not allowed to miss practice (or parts of it) without their scholarships being taken away. Consequently, given that some courses were not always offered at times where they could be in class on a regular basis, players were essentially unable to take certain majors/classes.

                        Also, in relation to the argument that they are only playing football 4 months out of the year, people are forgetting: 1) Spring Football; 2) Training Camp; 3) Conditioning during the Off Season; and 4) Bowl Games. Each of these essentially means that players are spending ~50hours/week from the beginning of August through December, then another ~20 hours/week the rest of the season. Couple that with the tremendous amount of control the coaches have over the players (read the NLRB decision to see exactly what I'm talking about), and it is pretty obvious these players are employees (using the common law employee definition that the NLRA essentially does).
                        If you're going to talk bowl games, then we might as well talk about all the swag they get for making even to the Acme Gears Who-Gives-a-F*k bowl.
                        Code:
                        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                        College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                        BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                        Originally posted by SanTropez
                        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                        Originally posted by Kepler
                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                          If you're going to talk bowl games, then we might as well talk about all the swag they get for making even to the Acme Gears Who-Gives-a-F*k bowl.
                          Might as well...although I think that relates more to the NCAA Regulations than what the school gives them...and doesn't really deal with whether or not they are employees of the university.
                          North Dakota
                          National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                          • #73
                            Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                            Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                            Might as well...although I think that relates more to the NCAA Regulations than what the school gives them...and doesn't really deal with whether or not they are employees of the university.
                            Right, but I think it relates directly to the "Woe is me" line being trotted out by all of these athletes and using that as a justification to be paid.
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                              Two elements to this discussion that seem under-emphasized to me are the role of agents, and the role of "boosters."

                              Someone asked earlier, "why can't football players / basketball players take out loans?" Like an agent lends them money against their future earnings as a pro? then they are in debt to this guy but then don't make it as a pro, then what? or some shady character lends them money and then says, "hey, I'll forgive your loan if you miss a few free throws..."

                              or boosters...."hey, come on down to my car dealership and meet and greet folks, and I'll pay you for that." That kind of practice actually was not all that uncommon, I remember reading an article in Sports Illustrated months ago about how some UCLA basketball players in the 1960s had "jobs" like that.

                              I don't disagree that the athletes are "used" by their schools. I'm not sure the solution is to allow agents, boosters, and unions also to "use" them as well. yet at the same time, do we want to appoint someone as the guardian ad litem for the players??

                              As many others have pointed out, the real underlying problem is that the NFL and the NBA are using college sports as their minor leagues. It's not like this in baseball, where a talented player coming out of high school has a real choice to go into the minors or go on to college. and it's even less like this for sports like wrestling or swimming or track and field, there really are very few people who can have a pro career in those sports (though top track athletes apparently can earn a decent wage in Europe).
                              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                              • #75
                                Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                                Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                                The value of a one-year Northwestern football scholarship was $76,000+ according to the NLRB decision.
                                Right, but perhaps their true "market value" is $200,000, but we don't know because they can't get it - can't even negotiate for it - because their employer is engaging in business practices that would be illegal in any other industry.
                                If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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