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College Football Players---Students or Employees?

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  • #46
    Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

    First, scholarships aren't always one year deals. There are four year deals as described in the decision published.

    The other points I will address later.
    Code:
    As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
    College Hockey 6       College Football 0
    BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
    Originally posted by SanTropez
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Originally posted by Kepler
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

      Resubscribed because mobile blows.
      Code:
      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
      Originally posted by SanTropez
      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
      Originally posted by Kepler
      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
        There was an article posted on GPL about this:
        http://www.sbnation.com/college-foot...n-pay-for-play
        In addition, point #2 has some absolute absurdities in it. Money to travel home? Cost for laundry? Give me a break. If traveling home is so **** important, stay close to home. Buying clothes? Why should the school foot the bill for clothes? And laundry, really? Is laundry that much a burden to college students? These are not expenses that should be covered in a scholarship. And I really don't care if Delaney and others are for it.
        Many athletes come from poor homes. The NCAA makes it very difficult for these athletes to take jobs that there is a fundamental hole in the ability for these young men to simply live a life. How do you get money for laundry if you're not allowed to work? Are you going to get a student loan for the express purpose of buying some Downey? How about obtaining a laptop computer so you can do your homework? I paid for almost half my schooling through my summer jobs, but these athletes could be seen as violating NCAA rules when getting a summer job because the students don't always know who the donors to their programs are.
        "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

        "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

        "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

          Students and employees. The work they do brings money to the university. There are plenty of students that are also employees of a University, from simple jobs like grading a class to TA positions. At Michigan the GSI (graduate student instructors) have a union and are often negotiating for better compensation and working conditions. Why shouldn't athletes be able to?

          Many of the things being requested are perfectly reasonable. A scholarship that includes misc. expenses seems like the right thing to do. Especially when some scholarships already include that. And to the poster who commented "if you want to go home, stay near home" would you give the same advice to a scholarship student who chose a school based on the academic merit of their chosen major? If I want to be a great violinist, I'm going to go to a school with the best violin professor I can get into, no matter location. Football players are going to go to the best program they can get into, no matter location.

          The medical expenses should be covered. I had my own situation with that as a marching band member. I needed to get stitches taken out during band week, a week before school started my freshman year. Because the semester hadn't started yet, I was technically not a student yet, and thus unable to use the university health services. Even though I was at school, doing school related activities. A player doing athletics related activities absolutely should be covered for medical insurance.

          Yes, all of this will eventually lead to the pay for play arguement. But why should league commisioners, coaches, athletic department administrators, marketing executives, tv producers get to line their pockets on the talent of amateur athletes? Yes, some of these big name athletes will make it to the pros and have more money than they need thanks to the opportunity to play at __ University. But when you're a broke college kid that can't afford to put gas in your 20 year old car that barely runs, potential future money doesn't help.
          Originally posted by West Texas Wolverine
          wT, your wisdom is as boundless as the volume of your cheering.



          Arenas visited:
          7 B1G
          7 CCHA (all except St Thomas)
          6 NCH (UNO, NoDak, DU, Miami, SCSU, WMU)
          5 Hockey East (BU, BC, UNH, Lowell, Vermont)
          5 ECAC (RPI, Union, Dartmouth, St. Lawrence, Clarkson)
          2 AHA (Mercyhurst, RIT)
          2 Alaskan

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

            If this thing gets legs, it'll change the face of college athletics like few things have. Which is probably good in some ways and bad in other ways. It's all about money and to the extent more money stays in the football program, other parts of the athletic department will inevitably suffer (absent a Phil Knight or something).
            Originally posted by Priceless
            Good to see you're so reasonable.
            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
            Very well, said.
            Originally posted by Rover
            A fair assessment Bob.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

              Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
              Many athletes come from poor homes. The NCAA makes it very difficult for these athletes to take jobs that there is a fundamental hole in the ability for these young men to simply live a life. How do you get money for laundry if you're not allowed to work? Are you going to get a student loan for the express purpose of buying some Downey? How about obtaining a laptop computer so you can do your homework? I paid for almost half my schooling through my summer jobs, but these athletes could be seen as violating NCAA rules when getting a summer job because the students don't always know who the donors to their programs are.
              Yeah you paid for half your school by working, they are paying for all of their school by playing football. They dont have nearly the expenses you did. I guess I am not seeing your point.
              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
              -aparch

              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
              -INCH

              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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              • #52
                Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                Yeah you paid for half your school by working, they are paying for all of their school by playing football. They dont have nearly the expenses you did. I guess I am not seeing your point.
                Whatever money I earned, I was free to do with it as I chose. I could put it all into tuition or I could split it out to do other things. During the school year I worked 20 hrs per week (usually) to help pay for more school and those things like clothes, soaps and entertainment. One of my roommates had a job that afforded him the chance to earn more than my cost of school, and he also elected to only take 9 credits a term to find a work/school balance that he found to be most personally effective. These athletes are not allowed any of these options because of NCAA restrictions on scholarships.
                "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                  That is wonderful that you and your roommate worked hard to pay the bills...their bills are paid for by their scholarship. That is the point of the scholarship, to pay for their schooling. Your example doesnt work because they dont have to pay for what you have to pay for.

                  You know in all my time at the U it never failed that I saw athletes eating out at restaurants or chilling at bars and so on. I mean if they are so poor and woebegon how do they pay for that exactly? (not to mention the tvs, gaming systems, tattoos...etc)

                  And before you say it, no they werent all hockey players and many of them came from lower income families. Do you honestly think the players are sitting at home not having fun and living the campus life? If you do that is fine...you would be wrong but that is cool

                  But hey what harm could come from letting them get jobs...I am sure that wont be abused at all.
                  "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                  -aparch

                  "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                  -INCH

                  Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                  -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                    Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                    Whatever money I earned, I was free to do with it as I chose. I could put it all into tuition or I could split it out to do other things. During the school year I worked 20 hrs per week (usually) to help pay for more school and those things like clothes, soaps and entertainment. One of my roommates had a job that afforded him the chance to earn more than my cost of school, and he also elected to only take 9 credits a term to find a work/school balance that he found to be most personally effective. These athletes are not allowed any of these options because of NCAA restrictions on scholarships.
                    These kids have plenty of opportunities to spend the money they get wisely. They don't pay room and board, or for their books. They have a luxury no other college students have.

                    http://www.holyturf.com/2011/05/foot...in-ncaa-rules/
                    AF 99

                    M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      That is wonderful that you and your roommate worked hard to pay the bills...their bills are paid for by their scholarship. That is the point of the scholarship, to pay for their schooling. Your example doesnt work because they dont have to pay for what you have to pay for.

                      You know in all my time at the U it never failed that I saw athletes eating out at restaurants or chilling at bars and so on. I mean if they are so poor and woebegon how do they pay for that exactly? (not to mention the tvs, gaming systems, tattoos...etc)

                      And before you say it, no they werent all hockey players and many of them came from lower income families. Do you honestly think the players are sitting at home not having fun and living the campus life? If you do that is fine...you would be wrong but that is cool

                      But hey what harm could come from letting them get jobs...I am sure that wont be abused at all.
                      Some colleges include the extra money in their scholarship offers, but not all. That was plainly stated in the link provided by dx. That said, I still find it to be nearly criminal, and if not criminal then certainly immoral, that the NCAA limits these students' ability to find other means of income. Aside from that, some of these student athletes may have taken out student loans to cover these various costs.
                      "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                      "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                      "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                        So what? I took out loans, most people I know took out loans. I guarantee we are in a worse position than most of the football team is.

                        You want to argue morality that is one thing. Calling it criminal...yeah sorry these kids are not victims.
                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          So what? I took out loans, most people I know took out loans. I guarantee we are in a worse position than most of the football team is.

                          You want to argue morality that is one thing. Calling it criminal...yeah sorry these kids are not victims.
                          I disagree. As much as I know that many (probably most) of them are self-entitled prima donnas who mistreat women and all the rest, that doesn't make it right that a 3rd party (the universities) should be allowed to make money off of them hand over fist. You can't round up a bunch of starving refugees from Haiti and force them to work in your factory 50 hours per week while paying them next to nothing and refusing to negotiate with them just because "at least they're better off now than they would have been otherwise." That's effectively what universities are doing to their money-making (i.e. football and basketball) athletes.

                          If the universities are no longer allowed to profit from the athletes in this way, it seems almost inevitable that some investors will see an opportunity to make money WHILE paying young athletes reasonably close to their market value and we will finally see true minor/developmental leagues appear without the charade of academics.

                          I say this as someone whose tail is firmly planted in front of the TV every Saturday in the fall, enjoying watching the spectacle of it all - but that doesn't make it right.
                          If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                            I disagree. As much as I know that many (probably most) of them are self-entitled prima donnas who mistreat women and all the rest, that doesn't make it right that a 3rd party (the universities) should be allowed to make money off of them hand over fist. You can't round up a bunch of starving refugees from Haiti and force them to work in your factory 50 hours per week while paying them next to nothing and refusing to negotiate with them just because "at least they're better off now than they would have been otherwise." That's effectively what universities are doing to their money-making (i.e. football and basketball) athletes.

                            If the universities are no longer allowed to profit from the athletes in this way, it seems almost inevitable that some investors will see an opportunity to make money WHILE paying young athletes reasonably close to their market value and we will finally see true minor/developmental leagues appear without the charade of academics.

                            I say this as someone whose tail is firmly planted in front of the TV every Saturday in the fall, enjoying watching the spectacle of it all - but that doesn't make it right.
                            Well, I think getting paid $76k a year in college would have been quite dandy. I think those Haitians may agree.
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              So what? I took out loans, most people I know took out loans. I guarantee we are in a worse position than most of the football team is.

                              You want to argue morality that is one thing. Calling it criminal...yeah sorry these kids are not victims.
                              Yeah, I don't understand why these kids can't take out loans like the rest of us schlubs.
                              Code:
                              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                              Originally posted by SanTropez
                              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                              Originally posted by Kepler
                              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

                                There's no reason they can't work off-season/summer jobs, either. Half the bouncers in Grand Forks were current UND football players...some of them even worked a day or two a week in season.
                                Jordan Kawaguchi for Hobey!!
                                Originally posted by Quizmire
                                mns, this is why i love you.

                                Originally posted by Markt
                                MNS - forking genius.

                                Originally posted by asterisk hat
                                MNS - sometimes you gotta answer your true calling. I think yours is being a pimp.

                                Originally posted by hockeybando
                                I am a fan of MNS.

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