College Football Players---Students or Employees?

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Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

Again, I do not believe the suit is about pay. I think the plaintiffs are focusing on care of injuries post college.

Right now if Johnny or Betsy suffer a career ending and/or a debilitating life time injury the college or NCAA washes their hands of the student once they're no longer enrolled.

If the plaintiffs prevail, then there will be some form of workers compensation for as long as the former student can't work, which seems to me to be a fair outcome.

There's nothing in this suit that limits it to care of injuries post college. Regardless of what this group of plaintiffs wants to bargain about now, there's nothing to prevent them from bargaining about something else later or a players union at some other school to bargain about pay.

If they were really only interested in care of injuries post college, that's what they should have sued for. But they didn't.

[Patman]

There's nothing in this suit that limits it to care of injuries post college. Regardless of what this group of plaintiffs wants to bargain about now, there's nothing to prevent them from bargaining about something else later or a players union at some other school to bargain about pay.

If they were really only interested in care of injuries post college, that's what they should have sued for. But they didn't.

My guess is the people financing this stuff want to break it all open. The unions sense a money opportunity. Altruism doesn't build golf courses

[Slap Shot]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

The vast, vast, vast majority of scholarship Div I players never sniff the NFL or any pro contract, and I see no reason to start paying out just because a minute amount doesn't care about their education. If they're only there to build for the NFL they can wait to get paid just like every college student. Nobody is forcing them into football, no one is forcing them to not value a chance at a degree that will last far longer than the average 3 year pro career. I don't care that they may get injured and not get to the NFL, life doesn't end with a broken leg.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

There's nothing in this suit that limits it to care of injuries post college. Regardless of what this group of plaintiffs wants to bargain about now, there's nothing to prevent them from bargaining about something else later or a players union at some other school to bargain about pay.

If they were really only interested in care of injuries post college, that's what they should have sued for. But they didn't.

And just because one side bargains about pay doesn't mean that the other side has to cave in. All they "sued" for was to be recognized as a union to collectively bargain with the university. All that requires of Northwestern is to bargain in good faith.

At the end of the day, the University will have only itself to blame by treating these players as employees. If they focused on academics more than football, and didn't significantly control the players' lives there wouldn't be much of a leg to stand on for the players.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

Nobody is forcing them into football, no one is forcing them to not value a chance at a degree that will last far longer than the average 3 year pro career.

Then how do you respond to the fact that players at Northwestern were unable to take classes for their desired major (and subsequently had to take less demanding majors due to the crazy amount of hours they had to put in) without losing their scholarship?

[Handyman]

Then how do you respond to the fact that players at Northwestern were unable to take classes for their desired major (and subsequently had to take less demanding majors due to the crazy amount of hours they had to put in) without losing their scholarship?

First of all it is not a fact since it is just a story given by a biased party with no evidence that I have seen. (admittedly I havent followed the story in a few days)

I respond that I think Colter is lying. If by some chance he isnt lying, then Pat Fitzgerald should be canned. Also if I read the story right Colter (if he is who you are referencing) said it was suggested he not be pre-med because the classes he needed would conflict with practice times. They never flat out said "if you take this we are ending your scholarship". I dont see the NW Board of Regents thinking that is kosher...

Minnesota has players that have majors like biochem on their team with schedules that are as rigid as any out there and they make it work. I just highly doubt a school like NW, that prides itself on education and really could give two craps about athletics overall (as evidenced by their weak fanbase and terrible facilities) would force athletes to drop majors because of athletics. Ohio State maybe..and SEC school for sure...but Northwestern? Sorry that doesnt hold water to me...

[Priceless]

The vast, vast, vast majority of scholarship Div I players never sniff the NFL or any pro contract, and I see no reason to start paying out just because a minute amount doesn't care about their education. If they're only there to build for the NFL they can wait to get paid just like every college student. Nobody is forcing them into football, no one is forcing them to not value a chance at a degree that will last far longer than the average 3 year pro career. I don't care that they may get injured and not get to the NFL, life doesn't end with a broken leg.

What if your coach sends you up on scaffolding to videotape practice even though there are 50 mph winds and you die? Does life end then?

What if you're trying to check an opponent and slip and break your spine? What if you're blocking on a kick return and end up paralyzed? I guess the school and the NCAA should be able to write you off. I mean, it's not like it's the end of the world.

[Handyman]

What if your coach sends you up on scaffolding to videotape practice even though there are 50 mph winds and you die? Does life end then?

What if you're trying to check an opponent and slip and break your spine? What if you're blocking on a kick return and end up paralyzed? I guess the school and the NCAA should be able to write you off. I mean, it's not like it's the end of the world.

I think we all agree that athletes should get better coverage for health concerns. If they are injured or have long lasting effects because of the sport they play the school should be responsible for fixing that.

The problem isnt that, it is the unintended consequences that come about with unionization. Health care will be pushed aside almost immediately as more "fiscal" issues are brought to the forefront. College football will turn into the NFL quickly to the detriment of pretty much every other sport on campus not named college basketball. Money is already an issue in these sports and making the players employees as opposed to amateur students will open the floodgates.

Unionization is like the BTHC, it is the worth possible solution to the problems the NCAA is facing. The BTHC caused the conference realignment that was desperately needed to the detriment of everynes feelings. There were better ways to go about it just like there are other ways for the athletes to get better health care.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

First of all it is not a fact since it is just a story given by a biased party with no evidence that I have seen. (admittedly I havent followed the story in a few days)

I respond that I think Colter is lying. If by some chance he isnt lying, then Pat Fitzgerald should be canned. Also if I read the story right Colter (if he is who you are referencing) said it was suggested he not be pre-med because the classes he needed would conflict with practice times. They never flat out said "if you take this we are ending your scholarship". I dont see the NW Board of Regents thinking that is kosher...

Minnesota has players that have majors like biochem on their team with schedules that are as rigid as any out there and they make it work. I just highly doubt a school like NW, that prides itself on education and really could give two craps about athletics overall (as evidenced by their weak fanbase and terrible facilities) would force athletes to drop majors because of athletics. Ohio State maybe..and SEC school for sure...but Northwestern? Sorry that doesnt hold water to me...

First, you should read the NLRB decision and see the evidence used to come to that determination. It's pretty clear that what happened to Colter happened to others, and people testified as such under oath. In our Sports Law class, Professor Brandt (Andrew Brandt...former VP for the Packers and ESPN commentator) brought in some of the football players from Villanova. They essentially said this was rampant there, and rampant pretty much everywhere they had seen. But go ahead, turn a blind eye to it...

As for Colter, he was pre-med, and couldn't take the classes that he needed without it conflicting with practice. Had he missed practice (or portions of practice), he would have lost his scholarship. It's not that difficult to see...unless you don't want to see it. Of course, you're extremely biased against Colter (think he's lying when he has no reason to do so...he won't be the one who benefits from this movement), so I'm sure you'll find some other excuse.

Second, who cares about Minnesota? They are a public school and there will be no unionization of players at public schools anytime soon (barring significant legislation that will never happen). It's a completely different situation than Northwestern. As for those players taking difficult majors, I'd be curious to see if they are scholarship players, and, if so, if they graduate with those degrees.

[Handyman]

First, you should read the NLRB decision and see the evidence used to come to that determination. It's pretty clear that what happened to Colter happened to others, and people testified as such under oath. In our Sports Law class, Professor Brandt (Andrew Brandt...former VP for the Packers and ESPN commentator) brought in some of the football players from Villanova. They essentially said this was rampant there, and rampant pretty much everywhere they had seen. But go ahead, turn a blind eye to it...

As for Colter, he was pre-med, and couldn't take the classes that he needed without it conflicting with practice. Had he missed practice (or portions of practice), he would have lost his scholarship. It's not that difficult to see...unless you don't want to see it. Of course, you're extremely biased against Colter (think he's lying when he has no reason to do so...he won't be the one who benefits from this movement), so I'm sure you'll find some other excuse.

Second, who cares about Minnesota? They are a public school and there will be no unionization of players at public schools anytime soon (barring significant legislation that will never happen). It's a completely different situation than Northwestern. As for those players taking difficult majors, I'd be curious to see if they are scholarship players, and, if so, if they graduate with those degrees.

They are and they do. You want to twist things to fit your agenda go ahead (this isnt public vs. private) fact is plenty of athletes make tough schedules work while on scholarship at major universities all over the country both at private schools and public universities. Sorry if my heart doesnt bleed for Colter. He could always choose to quit football and become a doctor...he will make more money since he has zero chance of an NFL future. Hey then he could even get a job...or will he sue when his internship and residency takes up all his time and he makes barely a living wage for a long time. Maybe he can unionize his fellow scrubwearers!!

Seriously, you think Northwestern would sacrifice its outstanding educational reputation over a QB for a football team that barely registers at all? They wont even renovate their football stadium but they are going to bend over backwards to allow a coach to screw over his athletes? Athletes btw they are funding to go there? Sorry that stinks like a rotten fish. If it is true than NW should face some serious sanctions but I just dont think so.

[Slap Shot]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

Then how do you respond to the fact that players at Northwestern were unable to take classes for their desired major (and subsequently had to take less demanding majors due to the crazy amount of hours they had to put in) without losing their scholarship?

Not only do I doubt this actually happened or at least that it was systemic, but even if it did they could quit football or transfer. Again - no one is forcing them to play football.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Not only do I doubt this actually happened or at least that it was systemic, but even if it did they could quit football or transfer. Again - no one is forcing them to play football.

And if they quit football do you think the University would still honor the scholarship?

The whole "nobody is forcing them to" argument is a joke. It's the same thing people used to say to employees who were racially discriminated against. Hey, you're choosing to keep working there...suck it up

[duper]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

A not-really related article from SI from 1954 about why the University of Chicago dropped football in 1939. The Maroons were in the Big 10, and the very first winner of the award that was later renamed the Heisman Trophy was a Maroon. Ultimately, they made the decision that big-time football and big-time education didn't mix. I wonder if it isn't time for some other schools to reach a similar conclusion.

[Slap Shot]

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

And if they quit football do you think the University would still honor the scholarship?

The whole "nobody is forcing them to" argument is a joke. It's the same thing people used to say to employees who were racially discriminated against. Hey, you're choosing to keep working there...suck it up

No, it's not the same thing. At all.

[mookie1995]

The whole "nobody is forcing them to" argument is a joke. It's the same thing people used to say to employees who were racially discriminated against. Hey, you're choosing to keep working there...suck it up

spot-f'i n g-on!!