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  • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

    I think I got spanked maybe once? My dad's model of discipline mostly involved having to sit on the couch while he yelled at me for whatever wrong I had done (which he learned from my grandmother, who "wore the pants" and still does). This is also how he has run his business for 35 years, so it's really the only thing he knows how to do to get his point across.

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    • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      For that matter, if ISIS wanted to live in the 12th century that would be tolerable -- in the 12th century the Muslims were kicking the west's *** up and down the arts and science leaderboard. It was only when a backwater group of dimwitted fundies seized control of the state and forced a religious literalist philosophy and lifestyle down everybody's throat that the Islamic world became a dead end.

      History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
      I'll give you credit. You shoehorn pretty much everything into the same narrative. You get an "A" for creativity and effort.
      Originally posted by Priceless
      Good to see you're so reasonable.
      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
      Very well, said.
      Originally posted by Rover
      A fair assessment Bob.

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      • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

        Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
        I'll give you credit. You shoehorn pretty much everything into the same narrative. You get an "A" for creativity and effort.
        Not really, calling all conservatives "Taliban" and equating the beheading of infidels in the middle east with preserving children's lives in the womb has been unoriginal for a few years now.
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        • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

          Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
          I'll give you credit. You shoehorn pretty much everything into the same narrative. You get an "A" for creativity and effort.
          Well, to the man with only a hammer...

          ... but in this case it's a fair cop. Thinking ends where scriptural literalism begins. Religion is a very useful map as long as people remember it's a map. When they reify it as the actual territory, it always ends in tears.
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          • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

            Originally posted by geezer View Post
            aka, "emotional abuse"; someone has explained this very deeply to me over the last year or so, and it's a very ungood thing to do to a kid. The effects of "dread" and "shaming" can be just as bad as hitting.
            There's a fine line to walk between "shaming" a person because of unacceptable social behavior (seriously, don't we want people to be ashamed of themselves if they lie, cheat, steal, or deliberately try to harm someone?) and "shaming" a person because of innate or acquired attributes. In other words, certain behaviors "should be" shameful, because that sense of shame is a powerful incentive to avoid engaging in those behaviors in the future. We never want people to be ashamed of "who they are" but in many cases we as a society definitely do want people to be ashamed of what they do, when what they do is "wrong." That's a very powerful tool that societies use to enforce the rules of how we treat each other in a civil manner.

            Don't we want wife-beaters and child abusers, once caught, to be so ashamed of themselves that they seek help and never do it again?




            The way you phrased your response, it almost sounds like any form of discipline would be unacceptable. I'm sure that's not what you meant: discipline is essential.

            The key question is, how do we transition from imposing discipline from without on a child to having the child learn to instill an internal sense of self-directed discipline?
            Last edited by FreshFish; 09-18-2014, 09:31 AM.
            "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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            • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

              Originally posted by geezer View Post
              Not really, calling all conservatives "Taliban" and equating the beheading of infidels in the middle east with preserving children's lives in the womb has been unoriginal for a few years now.
              This arrow goes awry. Anti-abortion isn't by nature a fundy position, it's actually quite the opposite -- a fairly modern extension of practical religious considerations to the advance of medical knowledge. It only gets tossed around by the fundies because it's a useful political ploy. Fundyism is the burrowing (always selectively) into a text to thwart thinking, while social engineering like the anti-abortion movement is the epitome of "real life" praxis. And anyway, it's primarily the province of Catholicism, which is again directly opposed to fundamentalism and highly welcoming of seriously thinking through both doctrine and worldly affairs.

              The enemy of reason isn't religion, it's the mindless (and always self-serving, and quite often -- at the top rungs -- cynical) dogmatism of the fundamentalist.
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              • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                There's a fine line to walk between "shaming" a person because of unacceptable social behavior (seriously, don't we want people to be ashamed of themselves if they lie, cheat, steal, or deliberately try to harm someone?) and "shaming" a person because of innate or acquired attributes.
                I don't know, maybe the difference is between whether the shame comes from within or without. It's the externally applied shame (from a parent or teacher) that is damaging. Bottom line is that showing love is always good, and diminishing a kid's worth is always bad, and whatever you model is what matters. These are things every parent has to learn within some period of time that we all find out we suck at parenting.
                Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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                • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  This arrow goes awry. Anti-abortion isn't by nature a fundy position, it's actually quite the opposite -- a fairly modern extension of practical religious considerations to the advance of medical knowledge. It only gets tossed around by the fundies because it's a useful political ploy. Fundyism is the burrowing (always selectively) into a text to thwart thinking, while social engineering like the anti-abortion movement is the epitome of "real life" praxis. And anyway, it's primarily the province of Catholicism, which is again directly opposed to fundamentalism and highly welcoming of seriously thinking through both doctrine and worldly affairs.

                  The enemy of reason isn't religion, it's the mindless (and always self-serving, and quite often -- at the top rungs -- cynical) dogmatism of the fundamentalist.
                  I apologize, because while I agree completely, I never would have given you credit for realizing it.
                  Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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                  • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                    Originally posted by FreshFish
                    you can remove that child and put it up for adoption
                    Trouble is that the Adrian Petersons and Margaret Sangers have a common agenda: "This kid is MY PROPERTY, you can't tell me what to do with it."
                    Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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                    • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                      Originally posted by FreshFish
                      Ironically, late-term abortions are a major civil rights issue these days, using "equal protection under the law" as their banner (see the Gosnell murder verdicts for example).
                      -- if a baby is born and then smothered, that is murder
                      -- how is killing a baby one day before it is born any different? just because of a minor accident in timing?
                      -- killing any baby that would be viable on its own outside the womb, how is that any different? Obviously the Gosnell jury saw that as murder given their verdict.

                      I'm waiting for LDS / Catholic charities / etc. to petition a court as guardian ad litem on behalf of unborn children, who otherwise have no voice, to stop this practice. You don't have to force the woman to carry the unborn child to full term, you can remove that child and put it up for adoption and these agencies will raise it and care for it just like they would a one-day old baby.

                      Because its not your decision to make, and nobody appointed you, LDS, Catholic charities, or anybody else as God. Late term abortions like you describe are already illegal unless there's some serious medical reason for having one, like the mother's life is in danger or something is wrong with the fetus. Why you would want to involve outside parties or the govt in a decision like that is beyond me.

                      That's always the crux of where conservatives go off the rails on this issue.
                      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                      • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                        Originally posted by FreshFish
                        Ironically, late-term abortions are a major civil rights issue these days, using "equal protection under the law" as their banner (see the Gosnell murder verdicts for example).
                        -- if a baby is born and then smothered, that is murder
                        -- how is killing a baby one day before it is born any different? just because of a minor accident in timing?
                        -- killing any baby that would be viable on its own outside the womb, how is that any different? Obviously the Gosnell jury saw that as murder given their verdict.

                        I'm waiting for LDS / Catholic charities / etc. to petition a court as guardian ad litem on behalf of unborn children, who otherwise have no voice, to stop this practice. You don't have to force the woman to carry the unborn child to full term, you can remove that child and put it up for adoption and these agencies will raise it and care for it just like they would a one-day old baby.
                        Oh, please. If you're going to frame an issue like that then please do it correctly.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                        • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                          Originally posted by Rover View Post
                          Why you would want to involve outside parties or the govt in a decision like that is beyond me.
                          It's the conservative position because safeguarding life should be the one essential role of government. If they can't do this one thing let's just shut it down and go our own ways. It's not like making sure everyone gets a free Obamaphone. It matters.
                          OK, sorry, I know we've been over this already.
                          Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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                          • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                            Originally posted by geezer View Post
                            It's the conservative position because safeguarding life should be the one essential role of government. If they can't do this one thing let's just shut it down and go our own ways. It's not like making sure everyone gets a free Obamaphone. It matters.
                            OK, sorry, I know we've been over this already.

                            But I also thought keeping govt out of people's lives as much as possible was the end-all-be-all of conservatism? Is there anything more obtrusive than having total strangers enforce through govt policy their belief you should have a child no matter what the physical consequences for you and the child?

                            No offense, but I'm not entirely convinced that Fishy can hold down a paying job. I'm supposed to believe though that he's qualified to make the most personal decisions for people he's never met? No. Thanks.
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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                            • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                              Originally posted by Rover View Post
                              But I also thought keeping govt out of people's lives as much as possible was the end-all-be-all of conservatism? Is there anything more obtrusive than having total strangers enforce through govt policy their belief you should have a child no matter what the physical consequences for you and the child?
                              If the mother incorporates then* the GOP will defend her sacred right to be protected from gubmint interference. You can get a 90% gloss on every Republican position by just crossing out "human rights" and substituting "wealth rights."

                              (* if she's white and Christian)
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                              • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                                Is there anything more obtrusive than having total strangers enforce through govt policy their belief you should have a child no matter what the physical consequences for you and the child?
                                Whose rights are most affected, the inconvenienced parent or the child who's life is at stake? Is there anything more obtrusive than having someone decide for you that your life isn't worth living? Right to life is all about being free of others making decisions for you. If you are the one being killed. The mistake in the conventional wisdom is assuming the only life affected by abortion is the mother's.
                                Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                                USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

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