The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

So we have to go back in to Iraq to fix the problem caused by us when we screwed the whole thing up in the first place? My lord we really dont learn from our mistakes do we...

And there's another mole, **WHACK**

[Rover]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Feel bad for the journalist, but in reality these ISIS aholes will most likely be eating a drone sooner or later anyway. Zero point in committing combat troops to Iraq despite all the neo-cons in the country and on the message board who might get some pleasure at that thought....

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Feel bad for the journalist, but in reality these ISIS aholes will most likely be eating a drone sooner or later anyway. Zero point in committing combat troops to Iraq despite all the neo-cons in the country and on the message board who might get some pleasure at that thought....

Oh, I don't want to send troops in. Send the biggest and baddest weaponry we have at them. No holds barred. Make them glow.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Never said anything about troops.

Support the people on the ground who are on our side with weapon sales and air power.


I'm not in favor of troops.

I have no qualms about vaporizing theses clowns from the safety of a computer screen thousands of miles away.


The only troops that I'd like to see are special forces acting on intelligence with a high probability of success and low probability of casualties either rescuing our hostage(s) or taking out their leadership.

[unofan]

BHO:


Right, and cockroaches have no place in a clean modern kitchen, either.

but guess what, Mr. President: the only way to rid a kitchen of cockroaches is to call in an exterminator. They won't leave on their own.

So do you want us to be the world's policeman or no? Or does it simply depend on doing the opposite of whatever it is the President is advocating at that time?

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I hope we never put boots on the ground in the Middle East ever again. Back the regimes that are useful, don't antagonize the ones that aren't, and provide anybody support when they want to take on the non-state actors within their borders. Materiel, not men.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I hope we never put boots on the ground in the Middle East ever again. Back the regimes that are useful, don't antagonize the ones that aren't, and provide anybody support when they want to take on the non-state actors within their borders. Materiel, not men.

Seems reasonable. Of course when something really bad happens (like 9/11, a genocide of some sort, etc.) it's going to be tough to not go in with more than material. While going into Iraq was questioned by some folks here and there at the time, I don't recall much opposition to going into Afghanistan on either side of the aisle. Of course realistically Afghanistan (as did Iraq) had a number of huge question marks over what we could really do there long term.

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Seems reasonable. Of course when something really bad happens (like 9/11, a genocide of some sort, etc.) it's going to be tough to not go in with more than material. While going into Iraq was questioned by some folks here and there at the time, I don't recall much opposition to going into Afghanistan on either side of the aisle. Of course realistically Afghanistan (as did Iraq) had a number of huge question marks over what we could really do there long term.

Even I supported going into Afghanistan, and I've never really been comfortable with criticisms of the early operations there. It seems like hindsight to say we could have caught the AQ leaders and Osama before they made the run to Tora Bora. I don't think there was any credible intel at the time that amounted to a likelihood they would use that escape route.

If we have learned anything, left and right, and if we can encode it now in our DNA before the next actual incident splits us into opposing camps for purely partisan reasons, I hope it is:

1. Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
2. Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
3. Don't invade countries to topple their regimes.
4. Don't occupy countries, period.

There are appropriate uses for the military: repelling invasions (here and on allied soil) and keeping trade lanes safe. There are even appropriate uses for the military on hostile soil (eliminating a war enemy's ability to continue fighting). But the '91 Gulf War is my model: have a plan, execute with overwhelming force, avoid engaging the enemy's civilian population, get out as soon as you have accomplished your initial aims. Our two biggest blunders, Vietnam and Iraq, came about because of Mission Creep. For a country with our ridiculously overgrown military might, that is our only real danger.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Even I supported going into Afghanistan, and I've never really been comfortable with criticisms of the early operations there. It seems like hindsight to say we could have caught the AQ leaders and Osama before they made the run to Tora Bora. I don't think there was any credible intel at the time that amounted to a likelihood they would use that escape route.

If we have learned anything, left and right, and if we can encode it now in our DNA before the next actual incident splits us into opposing camps for purely partisan reasons, I hope it is:

1. Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
2. Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
3. Don't invade countries to topple their regimes.
4. Don't occupy countries, period.

There are appropriate uses for the military: repelling invasions (here and on allied soil) and keeping trade lanes safe. There are even appropriate uses for the military on hostile soil (eliminating a war enemy's ability to continue fighting). But the '91 Gulf War is my model: have a plan, execute with overwhelming force, avoid engaging the enemy's civilian population, get out as soon as you have accomplished your initial aims. Our two biggest blunders, Vietnam and Iraq, came about because of Mission Creep. For a country with our ridiculously overgrown military might, that is our only real danger.

I largely agree. Afghanistan was always going to be a tough one. History shows that foreign interlopers never have much success there, but we had to address where the AQ folks were coming from and the Taliban was fairly well ensconced there. Things will likely fall apart there again once we get out, which was always the likelihood. Maybe there was a way to go in and deal with some stuff and then get out and send the message not to harbor AQ again? Hard to say how that would have gone. I agree mission creep is a real concern.


See, I know you think I'm a total wack job on social issues, but we really do have a good bit of common ground on foreign policy. I've always thought that foreign policy presented more opportunities for common ground between both sides of the aisle.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

the '91 Gulf War is my model: have a plan, execute with overwhelming force, avoid engaging the enemy's civilian population, get out as soon as you have accomplished your initial aims.

I suggest that Jefferson's actions against the Barbary pirates in 1801 - 1805 is the more appropriate model for the current situation vis-a-vis ISIS.

There is only one thing that bullies understand, and that is superior force. No amount of eloquence will suffice.

They want to become martyrs to their cause? fine, let's help them achieve that goal.

[Priceless]

I suggest that Jefferson's actions against the Barbary pirates in 1801 - 1805 is the more appropriate model for the current situation vis-a-vis ISIS.

There is only one thing that bullies understand, and that is superior force. No amount of eloquence will suffice.

They want to become martyrs to their cause? fine, let's help them achieve that goal.

You first.
http://www.goarmy.com/learn/apply.html

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

See, I know you think I'm a total wack job on social issues, but we really do have a good bit of common ground on foreign policy. I've always thought that foreign policy presented more opportunities for common ground between both sides of the aisle.

I agree. And I know you think I'm a total whack job on social issues, too.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

i suggest that jefferson's actions against the barbary pirates in 1801 - 1805 is the more appropriate model for the current situation vis-a-vis isis.

There is only one thing that bullies understand, and that is superior force. No amount of eloquence will suffice.

They want to become martyrs to their cause? Fine, let's help them achieve that goal.

*whack*

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I agree. And I know you think I'm a total whack job on social issues, too.

Naw. There's some liberal wack jobs around here on social issues, but you're a bit more reasonable than them. I just consider you to be significantly misguided.

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I suggest that Jefferson's actions against the Barbary pirates in 1801 - 1805 is the more appropriate model for the current situation vis-a-vis ISIS.

What little (and I mean little) I know from that period is that the Barbary pirates were basically working a thousand year-old business plan in conjunction with the local North African "states" (really just strongman-run outposts). The Europeans were used to paying them tribute for the same reason we spent millions in bribes in Anbar Province -- pay the local toughs to keep their streets clean. Enter TJ and his idealism (and horse sense), and war it was. It worked out well, but it could have gone pretty badly.

"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute!" sounds manly but historically it's dumb. Bribery is entirely reasonable in situations where it's impractical to project force.