The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

As any college student from 2005 on knows, never cite Wikipedia as a source.

Wikipedia is fine for a first pass reference on a message board. Obviously if we were doing hard core research we would need verified primary sources, but nobody here is doing anything more valuable than trying to inform their colleagues.

I understand the sentiment, but let's not turn the cafe into an armed camp.

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Jimjamesak's two keys to happy posting:

1. Ignore the ramblers
2. Post ponies.

Kittens or GTFO.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

More planes are falling out of the skies, it seems.

Ukrainean fighter jets shot down -> http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1
Probably fits in the category of the "terror" thread

Plane crashes in Taiwan -> http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world/...ash/index.html
Probably not "terror" related, but didn't know where else to put it.

And back on subject, I think if I were the pro-Russian rebels, I'd hold off shooting any planes down for a little while, especially if said planes are shot down right near where the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down.

[Jimjamesak]

And back on subject, I think if I were the pro-Russian rebels, I'd hold off shooting any planes down for a little while, especially if said planes are shot down right near where the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down.

Nah, always double down on 11. I'm sure they have some irrational reason.

[Priceless]

Huh? Did Priceless coopt OP's username and password or something? Not buying it. There was a time in Hitler's youth that he was quite interested in the church and toyed with the idea of going into the clergy, but that's when he was quite young and that faded rather quickly, never to come back. Maybe you're referring to some of the sham church stuff the Nazis did, while doing away with the folks like Boenhoeffer who followed Christian teaching and opposed the Nazis.

Here's a sample of some quotes from the wiki on religion in Nazi Germany:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany
"Nazis, who left the churches in response and encouragement of the Nazi Party program to reduce the influence of the Christian churches in Germany"

"The Nazi Fuehrer Adolf Hitler stated repeatedly Nazism was founded on science not faith."

"Anti-Church radicals included Hitler's militant atheist Deputy Martin Bormann and Minister for Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, the neo-pagan official Nazi Philosopher Alfred Rosenberg and security chief Heinrich Himmler."

"It is generally believed by historians that Hitler and the Nazis intended to eradicate Christianity in Germany after winning victory in the war."

"During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed."

"Christianity remained the dominant religion in Germany through the Nazi period, and its influence over Germans displeased the Nazi hierarchy. Evans wrote that Hitler believed that in the long run National Socialism and religion would not be able to co-exist, and stressed repeatedly that Nazism was a secular ideology, founded on modern science: "Science, he declared, would easily destroy the last remaining vestiges of superstition". Germany could not tolerate the intervention of foreign influences such as the Pope and "Priests, he said, were 'black bugs', 'abortions in black cassocks'" "

"Writing for Yad Vashem, the historian Michael Phayer wrote that by the latter 1930s, church officials knew that the long term aim of Hitler was the "total elimination of Catholicism and of the Christian religion", but that given the prominence of Christianity in Germany, this was necessarily a long term goal.[63] According to Bullock, Hitler intended to destroy the influence of the Christian churches in Germany after the war.[64] In his memoirs, Hitler's chief architect Albert Speer recalled that when drafting his plans for the "new Berlin", he consulted Protestant and Catholic authorities, but was "curtly informed" by Hitler's private secretary Martin Bormann that churches were not to receive building sites.[65] Kershaw wrote that, in Hitler's scheme for the Germanization of Eastern Europe, he made clear that there would be "no place in this utopia for the Christian Churches'."

And on and on . . . . . .

No one is saying he was a good Catholic, but he was more than happy to use that faith in the early years to build his base. He also didn't campaign on killing Europe's 11 million Jews, Manifest Destiny or open warfare against the rest of the continent. Too bad no one took his book seriously. Or maybe they did, since he never actually won an election...

Here are just a few quotes from Hitler about Catholicism.

“I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program the character of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church has never allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundred years since it was formulated, but every suggestion for its amendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has been rejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can be built up on a document of that sort, no matter how contradictory or irreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so long as logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it.”

[Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40]

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.”

[Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on his personal Christian feelings. Published in "My New Order", quoted in Freethought Today April 1990]

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”

[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941][/quote][/quote]

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23/list-of-hitler-quotes-he-was-q/

After he had attained power his true feelings were expressed to his confidants:

In his memoirs, Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, wrote "Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him"

Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Goebbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide.
— Extract from Inside the Third Reich, the memoir of Albert Speer

The Goebbels Diaries also remark on this policy. Goebbels wrote on 29 April 1941 that though Hitler was "a fierce opponent" of the Vatican and Christianity, "he forbids me to leave the church. For tactical reasons."

According to Speer, Hitler's private secretary, Martin Bormann, relished recording any harsh pronouncements against the church: "there was hardly anything he wrote down more eagerly than deprecating comments on the church". Speer wrote that Bormann was the driving force behind the regime's campaign against the churches. Hitler approved of Bormann's aims, but was more pragmatic and wanted to "postpone this problem to a more favourable time":

"Once I have settled my other problem," [Hitler] occasionally declared, "I'll have my reckoning with the church. I'll have it reeling on the ropes" But Bormann did not want this reckoning postponed [...] he would take out a document from his pocket and begin reading passages from a defiant sermon or pastoral letter. Frequently Hitler would become so worked up... and vowed to punish the offending clergyman eventually... That he could not immediately retaliate raised him to a white heat...
— Extract from Inside the Third Reich, the memoir of Albert Speer

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

A Nazi, a priest, and a Jew walk into a bar...

Honestly, I don't see how this argument gets anybody anywhere.

[Old Pio]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I didn't say anything because I never really pay any attention to OP or Priceless' ramblings.

Right back at ya Bunky.

[Priceless]

Honestly, I don't see how this argument gets anybody anywhere.

This could be said about 95% of the discussions in the cafe.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Priceless,

Your quotes support my contentions that he wasn't a Christian. Your only one that really says anything substantive is from 1922, long before he held any sort of power, and I'd contend that even that one was hardly genuine.

Hey, if I tell you I'm an across-the-board liberal Democrat, you'll take that for face value, even if evidence heavily points against such a conclusion. That's what you're doing with Hitler.

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

This could be said about 95% of the discussions in the cafe.

Wait.

What are the 5%?

[Priceless]

Wait.

What are the 5%?

Threads like "Grind Your Gears" where people just blow off steam, the good news/bad news threads and the various sports threads.

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Threads like "Grind Your Gears" where people just blow off steam, the good news/bad news threads and the various sports threads.

And that 5% can be turned into the rest in just a couple of keystrokes.

[walrus]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Watching footage of the "funeral" in Amsterdam, wow

[Priceless]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

It's amazing what the people of Russia are being told by official newscasts/newspapers. We regularly talk about the differences between Faux and MSNBC, but at least they both (usually) discuss things in a somewhat realistic vein. Readers/viewers of Russia Today are being told the plane was full of corpses, the pilots bailed and crashed the plane deliberately into eastern Ukraine to make Russia look bad. Because that's something that sounds plausible. It's like the "False Flag", "9/11 Truthers" and "Moon Landing was Faked" nuts were given mainstream credibility.

One of the anchors of RT resigned on air by saying, "We are lying to you every day."

[Old Pio]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

It's amazing what the people of Russia are being told by official newscasts/newspapers. We regularly talk about the differences between Faux and MSNBC, but at least they both (usually) discuss things in a somewhat realistic vein. Readers/viewers of Russia Today are being told the plane was full of corpses, the pilots bailed and crashed the plane deliberately into eastern Ukraine to make Russia look bad. Because that's something that sounds plausible. It's like the "False Flag", "9/11 Truthers" and "Moon Landing was Faked" nuts were given mainstream credibility.

One of the anchors of RT resigned on air by saying, "We are lying to you every day."

In the old days, the only ones with consistent access to the truth were in the KGB. A penchant for ridiculous conspiracy theories and official truthlessness lives on.

Even Hitler saw the potential value of a false flag operation while sending hundreds of thousands of troops over the border with Poland as a result of a border "incident" at a radio station. An "incident" involving concentration camp inmates dressed in Polish uniforms. IIRC, Heydrich may have been in charge of that operation.