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The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

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  • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

    Obama's judgement seems to get more clouded by the day. I used to think he was a smart guy, but just not as smart as he thinks he is. I'm having to reconsider my opinion.
    Originally posted by Priceless
    Good to see you're so reasonable.
    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
    Very well, said.
    Originally posted by Rover
    A fair assessment Bob.

    Comment


    • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

      Huh. It turns out that Congress was notified. Even John McCain approved. What a shock.

      http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_..._savage_obama/

      And plenty of partisan demagoguery: in 2012 the late Michael Hastings reported that the White House was warned by Congressional Republicans that a possible deal for the five Taliban fighters would be political suicide in an election year – a “Willie Horton moment,” in the words of an official responsible for working with Congress on the deal. In the end, though, Hastings reported that even Sen. John McCain ultimately approved the deal; it fell apart when the Taliban balked.

      Two years later, the right’s official talking points are mixed: Some critics focus on rumors (buttressed by Hastings’ own sympathetic reporting on Bergdahl) that he was a soldier disillusioned by the Afghan war who deserted his post. Wrong-way Bill Kristol has dismissed him as a deserter not worth rescuing, while Kristol’s most prominent contribution to politics, Sarah Palin, has been screeching on her Facebook wall about Bergdahl’s “horrid anti-American beliefs.”

      But missing and captured soldiers have never had to undergo a character check before being rescued by their government. Should they now face trial by Bill Kristol before we decide whether to rescue them? Is Sarah Palin going to preside over a military death panel for captured soldiers suspected of inadequate dedication to the war effort?

      Other Republicans accuse the president of breaking the long-standing rule against “negotiating with terrorists” to free hostages. They’re wrong on two counts: The U.S. has frequently negotiated with “terrorists,” to free hostages and for other reasons. President Carter negotiated with the Iranians who held Americans in the Tehran embassy in 1979, unsuccessfully. President Reagan famously traded arms to Iran for hostages. The entire surge in Iraq was predicated on negotiating with Sunni “terrorists” who had killed American soldiers to bring them into the government and stop sectarian violence.

      Besides, this isn’t a terrorist-hostage situation, it’s a prisoner of war swap, and those are even more common: President Nixon freed some North Vietnamese prisoners at the same time former POW Sen. John McCain came home from Hanoi. Even hawkish Israeli president Benjamin Netanyahu traded more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners for captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit last year.
      Last edited by Priceless; 06-03-2014, 01:53 PM.

      Comment


      • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

        Susan Rice claims he served with "honor and distinction." Guess I better get a new "modern" dictionary to find out the new definition of those terms.
        Originally posted by Priceless
        Good to see you're so reasonable.
        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
        Very well, said.
        Originally posted by Rover
        A fair assessment Bob.

        Comment


        • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

          I know that 0bama wants to close Guantanamo Bay prison, but encouraging more hostage-taking in order to trade out more of the prisoners there for them is definitely not the way to go about it.

          That anyone is defending him over this mistake is just sad. You can still defend the man and his domestic policies while also acknowledging that in this instance to release five who have been described "the worst of the worst" in exchange for a known deserter is just wrong.
          "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

          "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

          "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

          "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

          Comment


          • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

            Originally posted by Priceless View Post
            Huh. It turns out that Congress was notified. Even John McCain approved. What a shock.

            http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_..._savage_obama/
            Except a swap wasn't done. Using the logic cited, I would guess that talking to Congress in June 2014 about invading Syria makes it ok to do it in August 2016 under the War Powers Act?

            And if Sgt. Bergdahl went willingly, how can it be a hostage for prisoner swap?
            CCT '77 & '78
            4 kids
            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

            Comment


            • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

              And if Obama had let the guy die over there the same people who are now criticizing him would have lambasted him for letting a brave soldier rot in captivity.

              Comment


              • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                And if Obama had let the guy die over there the same people who are now criticizing him would have lambasted him for letting a brave soldier rot in captivity.
                If a guy flips sides, then he's no longer a US soldier.
                CCT '77 & '78
                4 kids
                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                - Benjamin Franklin

                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  If a guy flips sides, then he's no longer a US soldier.
                  There's a big gap between desertion and being a traitor. Care to back up your allegations which are going way past what anyone else is claiming?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                    Except a swap wasn't done. Using the logic cited, I would guess that talking to Congress in June 2014 about invading Syria makes it ok to do it in August 2016 under the War Powers Act?

                    And if Sgt. Bergdahl went willingly, how can it be a hostage for prisoner swap?
                    What if McCain said this year that he would be inclined to support the release?

                    COOPER: Would you oppose the idea of some form of negotiations or prisoner exchange? I know back in 2012 you called the idea of even negotiating with the Taliban bizarre, highly questionable.

                    MCCAIN: Well, at that time the proposal was that they would release -- Taliban, some of them really hard-core, particularly five really hard-core Taliban leaders, as a confidence- building measure. Now this idea is for an exchange of prisoners for our American fighting man. I would be inclined to support such a thing depending on a lot of the details.

                    [...]

                    COOPER: So if there was some -- the possibility of some sort of exchange, that's something you would support?

                    MCCAIN: I would support. Obviously I'd have to know the details, but I would support ways of bringing him home and if exchange was one of them I think that would be something I think we should seriously consider.
                    Huh.

                    Odd that McCain doesn't refer to him as a traitor who "switched sides" but as an "American fighting man" instead. Probably more of those Vietnam-induced hallucinations the Tories warned us about back in 1999.
                    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/06/03/cnn-lets-john-mccain-off-the-hook-for-shifting/199561

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by unofan View Post
                      There's a big gap between desertion and being a traitor. Care to back up your allegations which are going way past what anyone else is claiming?
                      Dude, it was all in Sarah Palin's Facebook screed. She's already convicted him of treason. The only question is the method of execution. Personally, I hope they go with burning him at the stake.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                        Just read the feature story on Bergdahl by Rolling Stone from a couple of years ago. Sounds like he deserted, but he was definitely not a traitor, and his comrades in arms that are being paraded through the media were a bunch of fark-ups too. Sounds like an all around farked up situation.

                        If you want to read it: http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/n...f-war-20120607

                        None of that really goes into whether the trade was good or bad policy, though. I'm of the belief that either way, it's not a new policy, but just SSDD.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                          Originally posted by Patman View Post
                          5 Taliban commanders, i don't even think a POW has that value
                          The Israelis did a 1,000-1 exchange in 2011. I think we got good value.
                          "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


                          Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

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                          • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                            Europe's leanings maps. Kind of interesting.

                            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...right-success/

                            (If you can't access it directly, try through a search engine by typing Washington Post geography of europe
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              Europe's leanings maps. Kind of interesting.

                              http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...right-success/

                              (If you can't access it directly, try through a search engine by typing Washington Post geography of europe
                              Remind me, is "far right" in Europe the equivalent of moderate or Democratic here in the US?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                                If a guy flips sides, then he's no longer a US soldier.
                                Still waiting for something to back this up.

                                Comment

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