The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Stay on the sidelines. If we feel it is in the national interest to get involved, do so by proxy.

Hear, hear. I second this as a bipartisan solution.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Hear, hear. I second this as a bipartisan solution.

Third.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Careful. There are some on here who feel persecuted when they are asked to be reasonably specific in their criticism and to support it with facts.

Would you like some more whine?

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I've been critical of your posts in the past, Bob, for being overly vague, but I appreciate that you took a shot at it, and humor never hurts. I have to ask, though, what government do you believe were our allies in late 2008 but are now our enemies as a result of Obama's policies (or, as you say, lack of policies) ? And what positive relationships did we enjoy in late 2008 that have gone sour under Obama--and what is your evidence of that? What are the facts upon which you base your conclusions?

I didn't say that we had turned allies into enemies, but that our relationships with traditional allies in the region have been undermined. The two most obvious are Israel, which I had already mentioned, and Saudi Arabia. The weakening of our relationship with Israel is the most obvious. It's been in the news in various forms for years, but here's a poll that just came out that shows just how little the Israeli's trust Obama.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Pol...a-Abbas-377936

More Israelis find Abbas to be a worthy partner for peace talks than consider Obama a true friend of Israel. 74 percent don't trust Obama to manage U.S. policy in the Middle East. It's occurring on several levels, with both a seeming bitter animosity between Obama and Netanyahu and both governments sniping at each other regularly. I've never seen anything close to it under any other U.S. administration, whether Dem or Rep.

On the Saudis, the falling out has also been well documented. Here's a Guardian article for example:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...bia-syria-iran

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Would you like some more whine?

Is that intended as irony?

[unofan]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I've got no problem with us taking a harder line on Israel. The tail has been wagging the dog for far too long there. We supply them with weapons, we give them money, we veto every UN resolution against them, and then they complain we don't give them a reach around at the same time. And then play the anti Semite card at the same time to anyone who takes a more nuanced view than "Israel good, Arabs bad."At some point they have to realize they need us more than we need them and realize which country is the lone remaining superpower in the world.

Netanyahu is a war hawk. I take it as a sign of progress that he's upset with us.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I've got no problem with us taking a harder line on Israel. The tail has been wagging the dog for far too long there. We supply them with weapons, we give them money, we veto every UN resolution against them, and then they complain we don't give them a reach around at the same time. And then play the anti Semite card at the same time to anyone who takes a more nuanced view than "Israel good, Arabs bad."At some point they have to realize they need us more than we need them and realize which country is the lone remaining superpower in the world.

Netanyahu is a war hawk. I take it as a sign of progress that he's upset with us.

+1

[Kepler]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

It's occurring on several levels, with both a seeming bitter animosity between Obama and Netanyahu and both governments sniping at each other regularly. I've never seen anything close to it under any other U.S. administration, whether Dem or Rep.

And that couldn't possibly be Bibi's fault, right?

Likud is like the NRA -- show even an inch of consideration for the other side and they hit the wailing wall (and make it rain on the Senators they've bought). And you could set your watch by often JPost decides the US is "failing Israel."

We've paid their freight for 50 years, at enormous cost to us in blood and treasure. They can put a sock in it -- the US' responsibility is to American national interests. Insofar as those coincide with Israel, great. Insofar as they are at odds, get used to disappointment.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Is that intended as irony?

He's fond of the "I know you are, but what am I" retort.

[burd]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I didn't say that we had turned allies into enemies, but that our relationships with traditional allies in the region have been undermined. The two most obvious are Israel, which I had already mentioned, and Saudi Arabia. The weakening of our relationship with Israel is the most obvious. It's been in the news in various forms for years, but here's a poll that just came out that shows just how little the Israeli's trust Obama.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Pol...a-Abbas-377936

More Israelis find Abbas to be a worthy partner for peace talks than consider Obama a true friend of Israel. 74 percent don't trust Obama to manage U.S. policy in the Middle East. It's occurring on several levels, with both a seeming bitter animosity between Obama and Netanyahu and both governments sniping at each other regularly. I've never seen anything close to it under any other U.S. administration, whether Dem or Rep.

On the Saudis, the falling out has also been well documented. Here's a Guardian article for example:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...bia-syria-iran

Thanks-good response. How do you think Obama's diminished popularity among Israelis has negatively affected the situation in either Iraq or the other hotspots in the region?

And how do you think the friction with the Saudis described in the article has affected the situation in Iraq and other hotspots in the region? The support from other governments in the area for Ob's current ISIS policy seems surprisingly wide (though perhaps not deep).

Do you think there is anything to the claim that the Saudis have been getting away with egregious human rights abuses within their own borders without much comment from us because we are slaves to their oil influence?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

I didn't say that we had turned allies into enemies, but that our relationships with traditional allies in the region have been undermined. The two most obvious are Israel, which I had already mentioned, and Saudi Arabia. The weakening of our relationship with Israel is the most obvious. It's been in the news in various forms for years, but here's a poll that just came out that shows just how little the Israeli's trust Obama.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Pol...a-Abbas-377936

More Israelis find Abbas to be a worthy partner for peace talks than consider Obama a true friend of Israel. 74 percent don't trust Obama to manage U.S. policy in the Middle East. It's occurring on several levels, with both a seeming bitter animosity between Obama and Netanyahu and both governments sniping at each other regularly. I've never seen anything close to it under any other U.S. administration, whether Dem or Rep.

On the Saudis, the falling out has also been well documented. Here's a Guardian article for example:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...bia-syria-iran

Diplomacy is a two way street. I find it hilarious you blame Obama for all of it. You're on a roll the last couple of days.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Diplomacy is a two way street. I find it hilarious you blame Obama for all of it. You're on a roll the last couple of days.

See, if you didn't make things up, I might try to discuss things with you. I never said it was 100 percent Obama's fault. Few things are ever 100 one side's fault.

[busterman62]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

See, if you didn't make things up, I might try to discuss things with you. I never said it was 100 percent Obama's fault. Few things are ever 100 one side's fault.

Unless it involved GWB

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Thanks-good response. How do you think Obama's diminished popularity among Israelis has negatively affected the situation in either Iraq or the other hotspots in the region?

And how do you think the friction with the Saudis described in the article has affected the situation in Iraq and other hotspots in the region? The support from other governments in the area for Ob's current ISIS policy seems surprisingly wide (though perhaps not deep).

Do you think there is anything to the claim that the Saudis have been getting away with egregious human rights abuses within their own borders without much comment from us because we are slaves to their oil influence?

I don't think the weakening of our relations with Israel has big negative consequences short term, and I expect the next President, whether Hillary or a Rep, to repair the relations at least somewhat. If Obama's damage to the relationship went unchecked and continued, at some point Israel would likely feel less constrained to do certain things or do things in a better manner (expand settlements, bomb Iran or others they see as an imminent threat, etc.) than they have when they've been tight with the U.S. and feel they can count on us to help counter things. And long term it could undermine things like intelligence sharing, which I expect is useful given Israel's location and capabilities.

There are human rights violations in all sorts of countries that we are to varying levels allies with. It's one of the hard things in this world that you sometimes have to deal with less than savory folks or else you won't be dealing with very many people, particularly in the more troubled areas. The Saudis have a bad record in many ways (though no worse than many others in the region), no doubt. But, if we stop dealing with any of those folks, we basically become extremely isolationist and have a much diminished ability to do things that at times need to be done (and yes, I'm firmly in the camp that we many times do things we don't need to and that don't make sense).

What's your take on Obama's policies in the Middle East and how effective or not effective they've been and what he could have done better/different?

Too bad the trolls aren't contributing, as usual.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Unless it involved GWB

Yes, that's one case where of course everything is 100 percent one person's fault, as we'll probably hear for the rest of our lifetimes and beyond if possible.