2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bull!!

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

NASCAR is doing the smartest thing possible. Keeping their mouths shut. They COULD be named in a suit later so they are probably being advised to stand pat until the investigation goes a little beyond Internet forum whining and beeching.

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

NASCAR is doing the smartest thing possible. Keeping their mouths shut. They COULD be named in a suit later so they are probably being advised to stand pat until the investigation goes a little beyond Internet forum whining and beeching.

I don't know how NASCAR could be named in a suit, because as far as I know the race Stewart was in (an Empire Super Sprints race) was not a NASCAR sanctioned event.

And ESPN just came out with the statement from the DA who has said thus far there are no criminal charges, nor evidence of criminal activity, though the investigation will continue.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I understand that, but lets be honest, that's NEVER stopped a lawsuit before.

[Priceless]

Which tells me that you didn't see the ESPN pre-race show, since they spent a lot of time covering the tragedy of the crash. You also don't actually know what NASCAR has done behind closed doors- could have done nothing, as you imply, or could have had a moment of silence- since most racers mourn deaths regardless of what series they run in. And even with all of those deaths, races are still run. Even if someone crashed in qualifying, the race would have started on time. That HAS happened in racing, and has been as long as I can remember. It's not actually that common that a race is halted when someone died. Heck most of a 24 hour race was run AFTER 88 spectators died in a horrible accident. (most being that the rest of the 24hr race was before the accident- the race never stopped)

Honest question- what compassion would you have been happy with?

No, I don't watch NASCAR. I did see Dale Jarrett's powerful message of sympathy...for Tony Stewart. He called this a "challenge" for Stewart. No, getting a cancer diagnosis is a challenge. Running someone over isn't really a challenge. Even if it was an accident.

As for what NASCAR could do...how about: when you're acknowledging the death of another driver, not promoting the race in the same tweet? Maybe you could actually do a separate tweet for him, then after maybe a few minutes promote your race? Maybe do a public moment of silence before the race? Did they do that? I'm going to guess from my Twitter feed that they didn't.

If the DA charges Stewart with anything it will be incredibly difficult to get a jury to convict him. In a civil suit, where the bar is "preponderance of the evidence," Kevin Ward's family stands a better chance.

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

No, I don't watch NASCAR. I did see Dale Jarrett's powerful message of sympathy...for Tony Stewart. He called this a "challenge" for Stewart. No, getting a cancer diagnosis is a challenge. Running someone over isn't really a challenge. Even if it was an accident.

As for what NASCAR could do...how about: when you're acknowledging the death of another driver, not promoting the race in the same tweet? Maybe you could actually do a separate tweet for him, then after maybe a few minutes promote your race? Maybe do a public moment of silence before the race? Did they do that? I'm going to guess from my Twitter feed that they didn't.

If the DA charges Stewart with anything it will be incredibly difficult to get a jury to convict him. In a civil suit, where the bar is "preponderance of the evidence," Kevin Ward's family stands a better chance.

Great ideas. Dunno if they did any of that.

But lets be honest- if someone dies at your work that you have no idea who they are, do you do something similar?

Or if a manager you know of hits someone in circumstances you have fuzzy info on- do you have some kind of similar rememberance thing going on?

I'm not a NASCAR fan, but a racing fan. And find it interesting how much flak they are getting over this. They really had nothing to do with it- why react so quickly?

As for any suits- be them criminal or civil, that's a heck of an assumption based on something that happened less than 24 hours ago that you really have no idea what happened. To assume that criminal charges would not be found guilty is as odd as assuming that civil charges would be found by juries.

You post a lot of funny stuff that makes people think. But some of the posts you've made in this thread makes me really think- joking about punishment via other players when someone died is of incredibly bad taste. You want other people to mourn over this- you could too.

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I struggle to see how anyone watching the video can argue definitively that Stewart is culpable. Forget that he's a grade a *******, I see nothing that tells me he tried to hit him or at the least saw him in time to adjust his line.

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

My take on the Stewart mess....First the only person who really knows if Stewart intentionally hit the other driver is Tony himself and I am sure he's never going to tell the complete truth so well never positively know.

With that being said, I personally believe that Stewart could have slowed down more and taken a more cautious line but I'm not sure that is a reasonable expectation during the heat of the moment. I believe that Stewart either thought he was safely by the other driver and/or was trying to spray some dirt on him. I don't believe he was intentionally trying to hit the other driver.

The other driver was a idiot for getting out of his car and moving toward the moving race cars. But unfortunately NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies either condone or do not do enough to make the drivers stop that kind of stupidity. How many times has this kind of BS happen in NASCAR? Seemingly every other race or there about.

I do think that Stewart is in for a world of hurt. Civil suits are sure to come and I wouldn't be surprised about criminal suit either. And for sure he will lose some sponsorship(s). Even in NASCAR sponsorships are hard to keep (ask Dale Jr.) and I can see at least one of Stewart's leaving due to this.

Finally I think that NASCAR should have parked Stewart for today's race. Not because he is guilty of murder (or anything like that) or because NASCAR should punish Stewart but because I believe wholeheartedly that it would be highly improbable for someone who has just killed a person (accidentally or not) less than 24 hours previously to be in a proper frame of mind to get into a race car where the slightest mistake can kill themselves or someone else. I just do not think that would be in the best interest of Tony and the other drivers who all depend upon each other to make wise decisions while racing.

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Finally I think that NASCAR should have parked Stewart for today's race. Not because he is guilty of murder (or anything like that) or because NASCAR should punish Stewart but because I believe wholeheartedly that it would be highly improbable for someone who has just killed a person (accidentally or not) less than 24 hours previously to be in a proper frame of mind to get into a race car where the slightest mistake can kill themselves or someone else. I just do not think that would be in the best interest of Tony and the other drivers who all depend upon each other to make wise decisions while racing.

So Tony parked himself. Should have NASCAR penalized the rest of the team who had nothing to do with it? It may appear cold, but you know as well as I do that racing goes on pretty much regardless. Stewart-Haas racing has a team with money on the table to race a race. Tony was just one person (abit a large one) on that team. They had to run.

[MattS]

So Tony parked himself. Should have NASCAR penalized the rest of the team who had nothing to do with it? It may appear cold, but you know as well as I do that racing goes on pretty much regardless. Stewart-Haas racing has a team with money on the table to race a race. Tony was just one person (abit a large one) on that team. They had to run.

I wasn't clear and I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't have a problem with the team fielding a car with a replacement driver (just like what happened) but if I was running NASCAR I would have not let Stewart run the race and would have publicly said so as soon as I saw that video and knew that Ward had died.

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I wasn't clear and I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't have a problem with the team fielding a car with a replacement driver (just like what happened) but if I was running NASCAR I would have not let Stewart run the race and would have publicly said so as soon as I saw that video and knew that Ward had died.

Possibility, certainly. But that's a tough call to make with just the cell phone video. It's a horrible incident from one of your drivers, sure. But sit a guy for what could be a horrible accident that is not part of your circuit? If a football player has a car accident that kills a second person on a Saturday night, does the NFL sit the guy? Can they?

Sure- if they found out later that it was his fault. But without all of the information, do you add to all of the rash reactions? dunno Again, the impact of such decision is more than the one person...

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

But sit a guy for what could be a horrible accident that is not part of your circuit? If a football player has a car accident that kills a second person on a Saturday night, does the NFL sit the guy? Can they?

Nowhere near an apples-to-apples comparison, as a potentially despondent and guilt-ridden football player isn't driving a giant feat of engineering that is dangerous in the wrong hands. If anything, a football player that's out of it and not all there is more a danger to himself than others. Not sure you can say the same about a race car driver.

[TonyTheTiger20]

Pedestrains are killed by cars. If someone walks out in front of me, am I at fault automatically? Do you really think you would see time? No, what would happen is that the circumstances would be examined, and THEN guilt would be assigned. Just like what should happen here.

When I saw the video, (and I only saw it once on ESPN) I saw a driver trying to avoid the other driver. I could be just as wrong as you seem to think that he tried to hit him. We will find out.

One thing- does everyone realize that the back of the this kind of sprint car is a whole lot wider than the front? It's just as possible that Stewart saw him, thought he was too close, and tried to avoid him. One other thing- particularly on these kinds of sprint cars- they are just as steered with the throttle as the front tires. Even at those speeds.

That is why we all see slightly different things in the video. I honestly don't see the logic that Stewart was trying to "teach a lesson" by dusting him- that makes no sense at all.

In the end, the investigators will take a whole LOT more than a video and a brief morning to sort things out. They will figure out what happened.

What sucks- no matter what they decide, someone will think it's some kind of conspiricy. Are they out to get Stewart? Or out to save NASCAR?

All of this. What reasoning would Stewart have had to be mad at the guy to even want to spray dirt at him?

Also I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Stewart wasn't trying to run the guy over, right? At worst, he was trying to give the guy a scare, but like I said, why? The other guy didn't do anything to make Stewart mad.

[MattS]

Possibility, certainly. But that's a tough call to make with just the cell phone video. It's a horrible incident from one of your drivers, sure. But sit a guy for what could be a horrible accident that is not part of your circuit? If a football player has a car accident that kills a second person on a Saturday night, does the NFL sit the guy? Can they?

Sure- if they found out later that it was his fault. But without all of the information, do you add to all of the rash reactions? dunno Again, the impact of such decision is more than the one person...

It's a huge difference between a football player and a race car driver and the potential for them to seriously injure/kill another participant. The chance for a football player to kill another is very small compared to a race car driver.

Absolutely NASCAR could and should have sit Stewart based upon that video. I'm not arguing that Stewart hit the driver on purpose or not. That is irrelevant for my argument. I'm saying that I highly doubt that Stewart or anyone would be mentally stable enough to be driving a race car less than 24 hours later considering potential risks to other drivers.

And the NFL might have trouble sitting a player arbitrarily but NASCAR is a dictatorship that does whatever it pleases.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

All of this. What reasoning would Stewart have had to be mad at the guy to even want to spray dirt at him?

Also I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Stewart wasn't trying to run the guy over, right? At worst, he was trying to give the guy a scare, but like I said, why? The other guy didn't do anything to make Stewart mad.

Just Ward getting mad at him could have been enough to set him off.

I do agree that even with everything Stewart has done in his career, intentionally hitting someone with a car is a pretty big leap. My personal inexperienced opinion is he tried to spray him or something and misjudged it.

[The Rube]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

As to NFL comparison: The Terrel Owens situation. He was not suspended, but he kinda was. And the NFL can (I think) suspend players pending investigation (and if need be, reimburse the paychecks if no harm, no foul). The contracts are all monetarily motivated.

And NASCAR should be able to do the same. They have the race exemption that has been used before, for points purposes.