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Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

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  • streaker
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by alfablue View Post
    I think the soldiers who died after Gettysburg, saving the Union, will disagree rather strongly. The end may have been in sight, but there was considerable distance to travel.

    Even assuming the game is over, the point about whether the Union could be saved is still a strong question to ask, after a war.
    IIRC, Lincoln was upset with his generals who let Lee slip back to Virginia after the Gettysburg defeat instead of pursueing him. It is recognized as a tactical blunder that prolonged the war.

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by alfablue View Post
    never mind- it's impossible to covince some people, and no point trying.
    That would be the "Priceless Theorem?"

    Leave a comment:


  • burd
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    I read a similar story in the Minneapolis paper, but I thought that story reported that the version inscribed on the Lincoln Memorial was actually the last version of the speech written, written some time in March of 1864, some four months after it was actually delivered, which I found strange, and was something I did not know.
    That could be, Hovey. I think the article stated that this reporter was so transfixed by the short speech that he ceased taking notes and was able to wire the speech out only because Lincoln himself gave him a written draft. I will have to reread it. It may also be that Lincoln did not actually speak the exact words written on the draft he gave to this AP reporter.

    Many people here in southern Wisconsin have visited the Lincoln presidential library in Springfield and told me what a fascinating experience it is.
    Last edited by burd; 11-20-2013, 12:57 PM.

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  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    I read a similar story in the Minneapolis paper, but I thought that story reported that the version inscribed on the Lincoln Memorial was actually the last version of the speech written, written some time in March of 1864, some four months after it was actually delivered, which I found strange, and was something I did not know.
    One of the copies written in Lincoln's handwriting is in the Cornell Library. Anybody with library privileges can go "check it out" to view in one of the rare manuscript viewing rooms. It's stored between panes of glass, so you don't touch the actual paper, but it's the next best thing. I did this on a few occasions with different friends while I was a student.

    My memory could be hazy, but as I recall there are only 5 known copies in Lincoln's handwriting (2 at Library of Congress, 1 in Lincoln Room of White House, and 1 at a museum in Illinois, plus the one at Cornell, I think). They were all written by Lincoln after the fact - the notes/text he spoke from at Gettysburg were not preserved, so the copies are accurate only insofar as Lincoln himself recalled what he said.

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  • SJHovey
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by burd View Post
    Interesting piece in the Wisconsin State Journal today about the many written drafts of the speech and the young AP reporter who sent one of those drafts out on the wire immediately afterward--the draft quoted below and inscribed on the Lincoln Memorial.

    I'm embarrassed to say I'm too much of an idiot to provide the link.
    I read a similar story in the Minneapolis paper, but I thought that story reported that the version inscribed on the Lincoln Memorial was actually the last version of the speech written, written some time in March of 1864, some four months after it was actually delivered, which I found strange, and was something I did not know.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hopkinja
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
    Similarly, there was a lot of talk in the dying days of the war in Europe, die hard Nazis suggesting an "Alpine redoubt" to continue the fighting. But Adolph refused to leave Berlin.
    All that means is that the first atomic bomb would have been dropped on Berchtesgaden, not Hiroshima.

    Although the division of Europe between the communists and the west might not have happened because we'd have had a lot more leverage over Stalin.

    Discuss.

    Leave a comment:


  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Had Lincoln not been assassinated, I believe the South would've repaired itself much faster than the decades that it took, and hard feelings towards the North wouldn't have taken two or three generations to soften. After he was killed, the so-called "Radical Republicans" in Congress suddenly had free reign over the reconstruction era for almost a decade, and exercised their veto-override power constantly in order to punish the South.
    Now THAT's an apropos misspelling...

    Leave a comment:


  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
    Agreed that there was still a lot to play out over the next couple of years, though the Union was at a definite advantage from here on out. Lee knew time was running out on the possibility of forcing peace and he had to gamble on pushing into the north. Of course whether Gettysburg was the right place to fight and how he went about things are fun topics for endless discussion.
    Agreed - the turning point is always the beginning of the end, or else it wouldn't be considered the turning point, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • alfablue
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    This speech marked the start of the assimilation of the USA into the New World Order, where states were forced into a nation against their will. It was the complete opposite of the foundation of this country, and the beginning of the totalitarian state we have today.
    This opinion begs to ask the question- why do you still live here if you think that is fact? Plenty of options out there for you.

    Other than that, I can't figure which part of the text is about the New Wold Order, as opposed to honoring the dead and reminding people that there's more to be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    This speech marked the start of the assimilation of the USA into the New World Order, where states were forced into a nation against their will. It was the complete opposite of the foundation of this country, and the beginning of the totalitarian state we have today.
    So I'm guessing Lincoln is the worst President ever on your list?

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    This speech marked the start of the assimilation of the USA into the New World Order, where states were forced into a nation against their will. It was the complete opposite of the foundation of this country, and the beginning of the totalitarian state we have today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Gray
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
    Although the Union won the Battle of Gettysburg, the war was not going at all well at that time and it was still 2 years from "over." There's a reason it was the Gettysburg Address and not the Spartanburg Address.
    Agreed that there was still a lot to play out over the next couple of years, though the Union was at a definite advantage from here on out. Lee knew time was running out on the possibility of forcing peace and he had to gamble on pushing into the north. Of course whether Gettysburg was the right place to fight and how he went about things are fun topics for endless discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • FadeToBlack&Gold
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by alfablue View Post
    Even not thinking of a lasting battle, how the country emerges from a war can effect the future greatly, which I would think, was very much in the mind of Lincoln at the time. He was not big on reprisals for starting the war, but more on rebuilding.
    Had Lincoln not been assassinated, I believe the South would've repaired itself much faster than the decades that it took, and hard feelings towards the North wouldn't have taken two or three generations to soften. After he was killed, the so-called "Radical Republicans" in Congress suddenly had free reign over the reconstruction era for almost a decade, and exercised their veto-override power constantly in order to punish the South.

    Leave a comment:


  • LynahFan
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Although the Union won the Battle of Gettysburg, the war was not going at all well at that time and it was still 2 years from "over." There's a reason it was the Gettysburg Address and not the Spartanburg Address.

    Leave a comment:


  • alfablue
    replied
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Rumor has long had it that a significant number of the Army of Northern Virginia were going to head to the mountains of West Virginia/West-ern Virginia/North Carolina and continue to wage the Civil War for another 10+ years, vigilante/Vietnam-style.

    Since it never happened as per the history books, there is obviously a lot of doubt to this story.
    Even not thinking of a lasting battle, how the country emerges from a war can effect the future greatly, which I would think, was very much in the mind of Lincoln at the time. He was not big on reprisals for starting the war, but more on rebuilding. Just over 50 years later, seeing how WWI ended, that demonstrated that peace isn't a certainty in the future depending on how the end of the war plays out.

    The whole thing could have blown up in the future into a new fighting war. Even how it played out, there is still lingering tension- although that seems to be diminishing faster since the 100 year mark.

    Leave a comment:

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