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Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

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  • Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

  • #2
    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

    So it's 150 years later for one of the greatest speeches in US history. And nobody has posted anything about it?

    Wow.

    A speech dedicating a cemetary after the biggest battle that has happened in the Western Hemisphere. One where Lincoln notes the sacrifice made for a union that 1) is currently in question whether it will survive, and 2) there's a lot more work to do.

    Discuss.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

      Originally posted by alfablue View Post
      So it's 150 years later for one of the greatest speeches in US history. And nobody has posted anything about it?

      Wow.

      A speech dedicating a cemetary after the biggest battle that has happened in the Western Hemisphere. One where Lincoln notes the sacrifice made for a union that 1) is currently in question whether it will survive, and 2) there's a lot more work to do.

      Discuss.
      Certainly the greatest speech by any American president, or any American for that matter. And a strong contender for the greatest speech ever, by anybody, in English. Some of Churchill's wartime speeches are also in contention. By July 4, 1863 the Civil War was effectively over. On the 4th, Vicksburg surrendered. On the 3rd Lee retreated from the catastrophe at Gettysburg. Game over.
      2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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      • #4
        Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

        Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
        Certainly the greatest speech by any American president, or any American for that matter. And a strong contender for the greatest speech ever, by anybody, in English. Some of Churchill's wartime speeches are also in contention. By July 4, 1863 the Civil War was effectively over. On the 4th, Vicksburg surrendered. On the 3rd Lee retreated from the catastrophe at Gettysburg. Game over.
        I think the soldiers who died after Gettysburg, saving the Union, will disagree rather strongly. The end may have been in sight, but there was considerable distance to travel.

        Even assuming the game is over, the point about whether the Union could be saved is still a strong question to ask, after a war.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

          Thought this was pretty funny.

          http://powellhistory.wordpress.com/2...sburg-address/
          the state of hockey is good

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

            Interesting piece in the Wisconsin State Journal today about the many written drafts of the speech and the young AP reporter who sent one of those drafts out on the wire immediately afterward--the draft quoted below and inscribed on the Lincoln Memorial.

            I'm embarrassed to say I'm too much of an idiot to provide the link.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
              I think the soldiers who died after Gettysburg, saving the Union, will disagree rather strongly. The end may have been in sight, but there was considerable distance to travel.

              Even assuming the game is over, the point about whether the Union could be saved is still a strong question to ask, after a war.
              Don't be so childishly literal minded. Take up your disagreement with Bruce Catton.

              In the same way, Midway turned the Imperial Japanese Navy from offense to defense. For the rest of the war. Game over. Notwithstanding Iwo and Okinawa.
              Last edited by Old Pio; 11-19-2013, 10:10 PM.
              2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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              • #8
                Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                Originally posted by burd View Post
                Interesting piece in the Wisconsin State Journal today about the many written drafts of the speech and the young AP reporter who sent one of those drafts out on the wire immediately afterward--the draft quoted below and inscribed on the Lincoln Memorial.

                I'm embarrassed to say I'm too much of an idiot to provide the link.
                Hey Burd, the title is different from the State Journal, but here's the link to the story you're talking about from the web.

                http://www.theday.com/article/201311...311199919/1044
                "This world is your world. Take it easy, but take it." - Woody Guthrie

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                • #9
                  Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                  Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                  Even assuming the game is over, the point about whether the Union could be saved is still a strong question to ask, after a war.
                  Rumor has long had it that a significant number of the Army of Northern Virginia were going to head to the mountains of West Virginia/West-ern Virginia/North Carolina and continue to wage the Civil War for another 10+ years, vigilante/Vietnam-style.

                  Since it never happened as per the history books, there is obviously a lot of doubt to this story.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                    Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                    Rumor has long had it that a significant number of the Army of Northern Virginia were going to head to the mountains of West Virginia/West-ern Virginia/North Carolina and continue to wage the Civil War for another 10+ years, vigilante/Vietnam-style.

                    Since it never happened as per the history books, there is obviously a lot of doubt to this story.
                    Similarly, there was a lot of talk in the dying days of the war in Europe, die hard Nazis suggesting an "Alpine redoubt" to continue the fighting. But Adolph refused to leave Berlin.
                    Last edited by Old Pio; 11-20-2013, 12:08 AM.
                    2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                      never mind- it's impossible to covince some people, and no point trying.
                      Last edited by alfablue; 11-20-2013, 08:05 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                        Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                        Rumor has long had it that a significant number of the Army of Northern Virginia were going to head to the mountains of West Virginia/West-ern Virginia/North Carolina and continue to wage the Civil War for another 10+ years, vigilante/Vietnam-style.

                        Since it never happened as per the history books, there is obviously a lot of doubt to this story.
                        Even not thinking of a lasting battle, how the country emerges from a war can effect the future greatly, which I would think, was very much in the mind of Lincoln at the time. He was not big on reprisals for starting the war, but more on rebuilding. Just over 50 years later, seeing how WWI ended, that demonstrated that peace isn't a certainty in the future depending on how the end of the war plays out.

                        The whole thing could have blown up in the future into a new fighting war. Even how it played out, there is still lingering tension- although that seems to be diminishing faster since the 100 year mark.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                          Although the Union won the Battle of Gettysburg, the war was not going at all well at that time and it was still 2 years from "over." There's a reason it was the Gettysburg Address and not the Spartanburg Address.
                          If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                            Even not thinking of a lasting battle, how the country emerges from a war can effect the future greatly, which I would think, was very much in the mind of Lincoln at the time. He was not big on reprisals for starting the war, but more on rebuilding.
                            Had Lincoln not been assassinated, I believe the South would've repaired itself much faster than the decades that it took, and hard feelings towards the North wouldn't have taken two or three generations to soften. After he was killed, the so-called "Radical Republicans" in Congress suddenly had free reign over the reconstruction era for almost a decade, and exercised their veto-override power constantly in order to punish the South.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gettysburg Adress, Nov 18, 1863...

                              Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                              Although the Union won the Battle of Gettysburg, the war was not going at all well at that time and it was still 2 years from "over." There's a reason it was the Gettysburg Address and not the Spartanburg Address.
                              Agreed that there was still a lot to play out over the next couple of years, though the Union was at a definite advantage from here on out. Lee knew time was running out on the possibility of forcing peace and he had to gamble on pushing into the north. Of course whether Gettysburg was the right place to fight and how he went about things are fun topics for endless discussion.
                              Originally posted by Priceless
                              Good to see you're so reasonable.
                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                              Very well, said.
                              Originally posted by Rover
                              A fair assessment Bob.

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