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50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

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  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    My first comment wasn't intended to be an attack explicitly on you (believe it or not), just a comment on how this was the only topic of discussion relating to the assassination. But, naturally, since you saw a post from someone you don't like, you immediately whipped out the women's names and the "nouns" in quotation marks and got defensive when I responded. In other news, the sky is blue.

    To note:

    You spent more words trying to tell me to pound sand than you did on the ROTC anecdote.

    I also counted one brief paragraph talking about how people started using TV to get their information on breaking news.

    The rest of your 3 dozen plus posts (many of them quite lengthy) are to complain about the various conspiracy theories, which is the direction the thread took from the first post. While it's only fair to note that you've certainly been goaded along with the conspiracy/Lee Harvey Oswald stuff, I'll argue that your "great honoring of JFK" is at best tangential to what you really came here to talk about.
    So what? You don't care for a discussion of the "conspiracies" surrounding the death of JFK. And wish for a different discussion? Then start a different farking thread. Why is it necessary to criticize those of us who don't have the precisely calibrated historical sense of what an awful day that was? Who don't meet your exacting standards? I should think counting up the words in posts would rank fairly high on the "obsessive ******* scale." And you couldn't convince your own mother that your first post wasn't substantially (if not entirely) a shot at me. Why even bother with that obvious prevarication?

    How amazingly insightful of you to ascertain the direction the thread was going to go, given the title. It was not intended to be a thread "honoring" JFK. In my own case, I stuck to the subject of the various theories surrounding his death and avoided politics and his personal life. While his death was an enormous event (for the country and in my own life) it was, as so frequently is the case, a good career move in terms of how millions of us regard his presidency.

    Don't flatter yourself, you aren't important enough for me not to like. But let's note for the record a substantial part of your "honoring the memory of JFK" consists of busting my b*lls. So when you're reliving frame 313 of the Zapruder film over and over again, you can tell yourself how you called me out? Wrapped just a teensy bit tight, aren't we?
    Last edited by Old Pio; 11-22-2013, 06:40 PM.

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  • ExileOnDaytonStreet
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    For anyone curious, here's how the three news networks responded to the story as it broke:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Uf50Bd86RHY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nzYvsaieR4g

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=bzjio2HQFZQ

    It is quite intriguing to see how the newsrooms tried to get information live on the air. Compared to today when you see this sort of stuff on CNN, MSNBC or Fox, you really do get the idea that they are simply trying to get more information. It's a lot less frantic than what we would see today. The tone of a newsman's voice (both in terms of how it sounds and how calmly they deliver what they know) back then really was different.

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  • ExileOnDaytonStreet
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    My first comment wasn't intended to be an attack explicitly on you (believe it or not), just a comment on how this was the only topic of discussion relating to the assassination. But, naturally, since you saw a post from someone you don't like, you immediately whipped out the women's names and the "nouns" in quotation marks and got defensive when I responded. In other news, the sky is blue.

    To note:

    You spent more words trying to tell me to pound sand than you did on the ROTC anecdote.

    I also counted one brief paragraph talking about how people started using TV to get their information on breaking news.

    The rest of your 3 dozen plus posts (many of them quite lengthy) are to complain about the various conspiracy theories, which is the direction the thread took from the first post. While it's only fair to note that you've certainly been goaded along with the conspiracy/Lee Harvey Oswald stuff, I'll argue that your "great honoring of JFK" is at best tangential to what you really came here to talk about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    [QUOTE=ExileOnDaytonStreet;5818319]Well, Agnes, here are a few thoughts:

    - 61% (even if that seems like a lot of people buying into a conspiracy of some sort) is hardly a consensus, so this thread was doomed to be hyperbolic bull**** right from the start. http://www.gallup.com/poll/165893/ma...onspiracy.aspx

    - It'd be kind of weird if in 38 years we (well... those of us who will still be alive in 38 years) were remembering 9-11 by *****ing about truthers instead of sharing our experiences with one of our nation's most notable tragedies and talking about how it's changed the world around us.

    - As for an alternative: Even if it came from someone who couldn't care less about a member of the Kennedy family, I think it would be far more interesting to hear what someone who was alive then has to say about how the world was changed following that day, or how it impacted the state of political discourse in a time that eventually found us entrenched in a myriad of major issues (Vietnam, civil rights, the Cold War, etc.).[/QUOT



    You know, I thought about responding but really, you're just an anal aperture. If you had actually read my posts instead of shooting off your mouth reflexively, ignorantly and stupidly you would have noticed my recollections about a moving ceremony when all of the ROTC cadets at Illinois participated in a ceremony honoring the dead president. But since it's me and you're you, that wasn't good enough. So this great honoring of JFK, in your mind, comes down to a typical ******* attack on me? I'm sure Jack would have appreciated it. Go pound sand.

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  • ExileOnDaytonStreet
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
    What would you suggest in the alternative, Mary?
    Well, Agnes, here are a few thoughts:

    - 61% (even if that seems like a lot of people buying into a conspiracy of some sort) is hardly a consensus, so this thread was doomed to be hyperbolic bull**** right from the start. http://www.gallup.com/poll/165893/ma...onspiracy.aspx

    - It'd be kind of weird if in 38 years we (well... those of us who will still be alive in 38 years) were remembering 9-11 by *****ing about truthers instead of sharing our experiences with one of our nation's most notable tragedies and talking about how it's changed the world around us.

    - As for an alternative: Even if it came from someone who couldn't care less about a member of the Kennedy family, I think it would be far more interesting to hear what someone who was alive then has to say about how the world was changed following that day, or how it impacted the state of political discourse in a time that eventually found us entrenched in a myriad of major issues (Vietnam, civil rights, the Cold War, etc.).

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    Does anyone else find it odd that this is the only way our political posters can commemorate the anniversary of one of the most shocking events in our nation's history?
    What would you suggest in the alternative, Mary?

    Meanwhile another "true believer," Marc Ambinder, no longer is.

    http://theweek.com/article/index/253...ey-to-unbelief
    Last edited by Old Pio; 11-22-2013, 04:06 PM.

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  • joecct
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Watching CBS news on the net as it happened. Link ---- http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/jfk-assassination/

    Yikes.
    Last edited by joecct; 11-22-2013, 02:53 PM.

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  • ExileOnDaytonStreet
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Does anyone else find it odd that this is the only way our political posters can commemorate the anniversary of one of the most shocking events in our nation's history?

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
    imho the only the statement that can be made without question is that LHO was the only shooter. Human emotion prevents us from reconciling the concept that one simple man could destroy the will of a nation all by himself and it makes sense that conspiracies would abound, but LHO shot alone. Anything beyond that I have no idea.
    If he had succeeded, who would have believed that John Hinckley killed Reagan to impress Jody Foster? Or if she had succeeded, that Squeaky Fromme killed Ford to impress Charlie Manson? Surely some folks would have instinctively concluded "there has to be more to it than that." And they would have been wrong.
    Last edited by Old Pio; 11-22-2013, 12:45 AM.

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  • Slap Shot
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    imho the only the statement that can be made without question is that LHO was the only shooter. Human emotion prevents us from reconciling the concept that one simple man could destroy the will of a nation all by himself and it makes sense that conspiracies would abound, but LHO shot alone. Anything beyond that I have no idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Even the book "Four Days" will tell you that Oswald wasn't even arrested for that crime, but rather for shooting an officer in a different part of the building.
    "shooting an officer in a different part of the building?" What are you talking about? LHO was arrested in the Texas Theatre for killing Officer Tippet in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas after he had exited the SBD (the only employee who did so) returned to his rented room and picked up his pistol. There was no officer "shot in the building." Tippet was shot on the street. And even though some in the crowd outside the theatre believed LHO shot JFK, it took DPD a little longer to link Oswald to rifle used to kill the president, but he was charged with that crime on Friday also. Why is that significant?
    Last edited by Old Pio; 11-22-2013, 12:47 AM.

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  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    I am not a believer in the conspiracy theories. I think LHO did it, did it on his own, and that's the end. I am also willing to admit I'm wrong if shown credible evidence to support it. I just haven't seen it as of yet.

    The only thing I'll say about the improbability of a conspiracy remaining secret this long is where the heck is Jimmy Hoffa's body. Somebody knows something. Probably more than one person. Yet we've got nothin'.
    Even the book "Four Days" will tell you that Oswald wasn't even arrested for that crime, but rather for shooting an officer in a different part of the building.

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  • joecct
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Cal Thomas remembers.... http://townhall.com/columnists/calth...0141/page/full

    And hopefully this is not behind a pay wall: http://www.bostonglobe.com/2013/11/2...iFI/story.html
    Last edited by joecct; 11-21-2013, 11:02 PM.

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  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    CBS given access to Dallas PD files on Ruby (not seen in 50 years). Although no conspiracist will be convinced, documents show officer most frequently smeared as the one "who let Ruby in," didn't.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...arly-50-years/

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  • Old Pio
    replied
    Re: 50 years later. And the only consensus is: ABO--anybody but Oswald

    Originally posted by SteveP View Post
    Brit Hume had an interesting analysis last week.

    The nut begins around 1:45
    I had forgotten about Eddoes. He claimed, for some unfathomable reason, that Oswald's skull had been swapped out or something. Similar to that kerfuffle a few years back where some looney tune "reasearcher" discovered "evidence" that some president (was it Zachery Taylor?) had been "murdered." Somehow, permission was given to exhume the remains and. . .zero. Many of these "researchers" are on the trail of the holy grail. Finding Noah's Ark, etc. They see things nobody else can see, and hear things only their ears can detect.

    To illustrate the point: Bugliosi totals 44 groups claimed by conspiracists over the years to have been "responsible" for JFK's killing, 214 named "co-conspirators" and 82 "triggermen." I should have thought the passage of five decades would have helped us narrow down those lists just a bit.
    Last edited by Old Pio; 11-19-2013, 08:09 PM.

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