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Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

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  • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    I've read Henry Hazlitt's explanation of how minimum wage laws decrease employment, believe me. There's something to be said for his argument. However, if we want to be technical the minimum wage in the context of a welfare state actually is an unconditional help to the poor, since those who retain their jobs are in a better position while those who lose their jobs drop from low income employment to state support.
    Pretty much the honest answer I'd expect: we don't really care whether the minimum wage suppresses employment or not, because on our scale of priorities, employment doesn't rank very high on the list.

    I do appreciate the candor, and that is pretty much how I'd answer the question were I pressed to answer it fairly from the perspective of someone who supports it: while raising the minimum wage does suppress employment opportunities, we have to establish our priorities, and raising wages for people who already have jobs is a higher priority FOR SOME than helping people who want jobs to find work.

    Now, if I were the person looking for a job, I might have a different answer......or if I were looking to hire a probationary employee on a six-month tryout first, before deciding whether to make him/her permanent, I might also have a different answer.....


    Left unsaid in your answer, of course, is that as more and more people are added to the unemployment list, and fewer and fewer people have "well-paying" jobs, how does money that comes from fewer working people support more and more people who are out of work??
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
      Left unsaid in your answer, of course, is that as more and more people are added to the unemployment list, and fewer and fewer people have "well-paying" jobs, how does money that comes from fewer working people support more and more people who are out of work??
      Yes, if we find ourselves in a permanent death spiral of ever increasing unemployment, the country will be in trouble. Excellent observation.

      Comment


      • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

        Originally posted by GrinCDXX View Post
        Yes, if we find ourselves in a permanent death spiral of ever increasing unemployment, the country will be in trouble. Excellent observation.
        Actually, there is an elegant and pleasing way out: people who do have jobs report that they are working longer and are under more stress than ever before. Meanwhile, qualified people who could do those jobs can't get hired anywhere.

        We'd have to re-adjust our attitude toward material consumption substantially, but I myself would prefer a society that is less materialistic and derived more enjoyment from hobbies and avocational interests and volunteer activities: in other words, those that have jobs share them with those that don't have them but easily could do them. We all work a bit less, but reduce spending by even more than we reduce working, and so everyone's quality of life improves.

        There is something a bit barren about working so long and so hard that one cannot enjoy spending what one earns on those things that bring the most pleasure.

        The fundamental problem of course is that those things that bring the most pleasure cannot be traded in the marketplace, and so capitalism has no use for them and actually "campaigns" against them so to speak.
        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

        Comment


        • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          How does quitting smoking help you memorize Hamlet?
          Depends on whether you live in CO or not

          Comment


          • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

            Trix wins.
            Code:
            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
            Originally posted by SanTropez
            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
            Originally posted by Kepler
            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

            Comment


            • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

              Lets get some citations out of you knucks:

              1) It was claimed Seattle was losing jobs as a result of $15 minimum wage. Source please?

              2) It was also claimed that raising minimum wage hurts fast food jobs. I find that to be highly unlikely, so source please?
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rover View Post
                Lets get some citations out of you knucks:

                1) It was claimed Seattle was losing jobs as a result of $15 minimum wage. Source please?

                2) It was also claimed that raising minimum wage hurts fast food jobs. I find that to be highly unlikely, so source please?
                There was a news or video article that a pizza shop had to lay off people and cut hours and remove discounts bcause of the new law. Google pizza Seattle wage and see if it pops up.
                CCT '77 & '78
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                - Benjamin Franklin

                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  There was a news or video article that a pizza shop had to lay off people and cut hours and remove discounts bcause of the new law. Google pizza Seattle wage and see if it pops up.
                  see my last post. One pizza shop is an anecdote, not data.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                    Another reason McCutcheon, voter suppression and "17th amendment repeal" efforts are ramping up: people are, very gradually, waking up.
                    Cornell University
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                    • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                      17th Amendment repeal? You mean 16th?
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                      Comment


                      • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        17th Amendment repeal? You mean 16th?
                        No, 17th. Direct election of Senators. I'm sure they'd advocate repeal of the 16th too. And maybe the 19th.
                        Last edited by Kepler; 05-18-2015, 12:34 PM.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                        Comment


                        • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                          I like how a bad economic theory, that raising the minimum wage costs job, is being directly challenged. For too long this was taken as fact. Much like Kansas has been a good expiriment in supply side economics (it failed) lets see how Seattle does with a $15 minimum wage.
                          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                          Comment


                          • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                            I still don't understand what the article has to do with the 17th. I might have missed something in the article or I'm just not making the connection today.
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                              I still don't understand what the article has to do with the 17th. I might have missed something in the article or I'm just not making the connection today.
                              It's not in the article, it's another of the attempts to pry the vote back from the "wrong" people (i.e., non-conservatives). There's a school of thought on the ideological right that direct election of Senators is somehow bad because it's "mob" rule. There's a far more important school of thought on the pragmatic right that it is easier to bribe state legislators to push through the "right" Senators than it is to, you know, actually have elections.

                              The overall idea is that as more people wake up the Republicans' raison d'être of keeping the top marginal tax rate low is imperiled, therefore they must impede democracy to serve their paymasters.
                              Last edited by Kepler; 05-18-2015, 12:39 PM.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

                                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                                Hey now, the last one is phrased as "End Women's Suffrage". And it's actually surprising to see how many people think "suffrage" is a form of suffering, rather than the right to vote.

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